Author Topic: Human Rights Act  (Read 4226 times)

Aruntraveller

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Human Rights Act
« on: August 29, 2016, 08:00:09 PM »
I am surprised and angered that there has not been more of an outcry about this in the media and from the public about this:

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/08/25/this-is-the-bombshell-dropped-by-theresa-mays-government-while-the-media-whined-on-about-traingate/

Have we become so apathetic that we are willing not to simply give away our freedoms but to even not realise it is happening.

There is a petition to sign if you do care here:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/125604
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L.A.

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2016, 08:12:41 PM »
I an not convinced that the story is real.  To quote:

"While the mainstream media joined Richard Branson’s smear campaign against Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn, the Conservative government dropped a bombshell. It is going to scrap the Human Rights Act."


I find it difficult to believe that the whole of the world media missed this story, it sounds like corbynista propaganda.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 08:16:28 PM »
I an not convinced that the story is real.  To quote:

"While the mainstream media joined Richard Branson’s smear campaign against Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn, the Conservative government dropped a bombshell. It is going to scrap the Human Rights Act."


I find it difficult to believe that the whole of the world media missed this story, it sounds like corbynista propaganda.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/63635/human-rights-act-will-be-scrapped-government-confirms

L.A.

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 08:26:03 PM »
Blair's missus will be down the job centre then.
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jeremyp

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2016, 08:47:09 PM »
I am surprised and angered that there has not been more of an outcry about this in the media and from the public about this:
One of the attractions of Brexit was to make it easier to scrap human rights... sorry, I mean the Human Rights Act. The media have been harping on about it for years and how it allegedly allows Europe to impose all sorts of nonsense on us. We don't need no human rights, we're British.

The next thing to go will be the working time directive because British bosses are at an unfair disadvantage not being able to introduce slave labour at will.

I might have mentioned that the Brexit vote was like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Quote
There is a petition to sign if you do care here:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/125604
A good idea - signed.
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Owlswing

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2016, 09:47:02 PM »

Blair's missus will be down the job centre then.


Hoo-fucking-ray!
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Brownie

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2016, 10:39:34 PM »
Appalling business. I've signed.
Don't understand the references to Cherie Blair - I may have missed something.
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Owlswing

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2016, 10:58:06 PM »

Appalling business. I've signed.
Don't understand the references to Cherie Blair - I may have missed something.


Tony Blair and his government passed the vast majority of the human rights legislation and then lawyer Cherie Booth (Blair) made millions, much of it legal aid, prosecuting human rights cases through various courts, British and European.

Lord Faulkner, Blair's Attorney General was Tony's Head of Chambers when he worksd as a lawyer and was also Cherie's Head of Chambers. 
 
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Brownie

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2016, 11:15:29 PM »
I get it Owlswing.  I have no objection to anyone making a fortune, wish I knew how  :D.  Cherie Blair was a marvellous barrister and I admire her for that alone.
However I don't want to derail this thread so I'll get back to the subject.

I signed the petition but apparently I have to click some link in an email which I will receive, checked inbox and haven't got anything yet  ???.  Sine die maybe.
The Tories plan to put something else in place of the Human Rights Act, something "British".
To me, the Human Rights Act is one of the best things to have come out of the EU and it saddens me to think we will no longer have its protection.
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Enki

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2016, 11:22:27 PM »
This is not new. I believe it was a manifesto commitment when the Tories came to power under David Cameron. Theresa May is simply confirming that commitment. Whether it actually succeeds, and a proposed British Bill of Rights becomes law in its place however is an entirely different matter. I think she would have difficulty in getting it through the Commons, and unlikely to get HofL consent.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2016, 04:51:45 AM »
I get it Owlswing.  I have no objection to anyone making a fortune, wish I knew how  :D.  Cherie Blair was a marvellous barrister and I admire her for that alone.
However I don't want to derail this thread so I'll get back to the subject.

I signed the petition but apparently I have to click some link in an email which I will receive, checked inbox and haven't got anything yet  ???.  Sine die maybe.
The Tories plan to put something else in place of the Human Rights Act, something "British".
To me, the Human Rights Act is one of the best things to have come out of the EU and it saddens me to think we will no longer have its protection.
Note the Human Rights Act didn't come out of the EU, rather it is the European Convention on Human Rights that precedes the EU and EEC as was as was and comes from the Council of Europe which precedes and is bigger than the EU.

Brownie

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2016, 05:46:29 AM »
Thanks NS.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2016, 06:16:09 AM »
And as some further clarification, we were signed up to the ECHR before the Human Rights Act was passed. People could pursue things to the European Court but it wasn't UK law at the time. This meant that trying to use it tended to be very expensive. It also meant that the UK govt was much more likely to lose a case since although not enshrined in UK law the ECHR would take preference at European (not EU) level.


While I sometimes am with the line from Shakespeare and think let's kill all the lawyers, the idea that Owlswing is implying that this was merely a way to make money doesn't really fly. Also i'm not entirely sure what people would specifically disagree with in terms of the rights given in the ECHR.


The question with the Tory proposal is whether they withdraw from the ECHR completely. A convention to which UK lawyers did a lot of the drafting for and is based on much of UK particularly English law.


I am not sure what their envisaged bill will contain but the passing of it, attempted or successful, and the resulting cases, will not lead to the impoverishment or lack of employment for lawyers, more likely the opposite. 

I would be interested in what thoughts anyone has on what such a bill should contain that the ECHR doesn't, or what it should miss out

Owlswing

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2016, 08:52:29 AM »
And as some further clarification, we were signed up to the ECHR before the Human Rights Act was passed. People could pursue things to the European Court but it wasn't UK law at the time. This meant that trying to use it tended to be very expensive. It also meant that the UK govt was much more likely to lose a case since although not enshrined in UK law the ECHR would take preference at European (not EU) level.


While I sometimes am with the line from Shakespeare and think let's kill all the lawyers, the idea that Owlswing is implying that this was merely a way to make money doesn't really fly. Also i'm not entirely sure what people would specifically disagree with in terms of the rights given in the ECHR.


The question with the Tory proposal is whether they withdraw from the ECHR completely. A convention to which UK lawyers did a lot of the drafting for and is based on much of UK particularly English law.


I am not sure what their envisaged bill will contain but the passing of it, attempted or successful, and the resulting cases, will not lead to the impoverishment or lack of employment for lawyers, more likely the opposite. 

I would be interested in what thoughts anyone has on what such a bill should contain that the ECHR doesn't, or what it should miss out

I think that the main objection to the Human Rights Act is that cases are heard by the European Court of Human Rights and this has resulted in some serriously anti-British decisions - for an instance - a convicted terrorist given, by the European Court - the right to stay within the UK because . . . oh I forget the exact reason, but it overturned a UK court decision to deport an active terrorist.

Is the fact that British cops are unarmed (for the most part) behind the wish for such people to stay here rather than be deported to places where the police are armed and, sometimes, extremely trigger happy? 
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2016, 09:07:02 AM »
I think that the main objection to the Human Rights Act is that cases are heard by the European Court of Human Rights and this has resulted in some serriously anti-British decisions - for an instance - a convicted terrorist given, by the European Court - the right to stay within the UK because . . . oh I forget the exact reason, but it overturned a UK court decision to deport an active terrorist.

Is the fact that British cops are unarmed (for the most part) behind the wish for such people to stay here rather than be deported to places where the police are armed and, sometimes, extremely trigger happy?
This was true prior to the Human Rights Act as my post covered. We were original signatories to the ECHR and overall the most influential drafters of it. The main bar to cases getting there was the cist. I am not aware of any case where the case has been armed police, are you?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 09:13:44 AM by Nearly Sane »

Hope

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2016, 08:06:18 PM »
I an not convinced that the story is real.  To quote:

"While the mainstream media joined Richard Branson’s smear campaign against Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn, the Conservative government dropped a bombshell. It is going to scrap the Human Rights Act."


I find it difficult to believe that the whole of the world media missed this story, it sounds like corbynista propaganda.
LA, its been in the news from before the Brexit vote, and is most certainly true.  I'm in two minds about it - the current legislation has shortcomings in my view, but unfortunately I don't think the Tories are planning to tighten it.
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Owlswing

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2016, 08:25:56 PM »

I am not aware of any case where the case has been armed police, are you?


What? Your question makes no sense - not to me anyway.

I am stating that it might be possible that terrorists fight deportation in order to stay in the UK because our poloce are not armed and terrorists tend to be arrested and imprisoned and not shot on sight.
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L.A.

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2016, 08:38:11 PM »
LA, its been in the news from before the Brexit vote, and is most certainly true.  I'm in two minds about it - the current legislation has shortcomings in my view, but unfortunately I don't think the Tories are planning to tighten it.

I'ts difficult to know what to make of it. It has hardly been mentioned in the media let alone discussed. Are all journalists so worn-out after Brexit that they just can't be bothered with anything other than the usual 'Silly Season' stuff?
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Hope

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2016, 08:51:21 PM »
I'ts difficult to know what to make of it. It has hardly been mentioned in the media let alone discussed. Are all journalists so worn-out after Brexit that they just can't be bothered with anything other than the usual 'Silly Season' stuff?
Not sure what you've been looking at.  I've seen several BBC pages, and printed media articles on it over the last 15-odd months.

Here are a couple - though the third link is to an article that is 2 years old.

http://bit.ly/2c6ewS5
http://bit.ly/2bPJeTA
http://bit.ly/2byG5rY
http://bit.ly/1XuYnqf
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 08:59:45 PM by Hope »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 01:23:32 AM »
What? Your question makes no sense - not to me anyway.

I am stating that it might be possible that terrorists fight deportation in order to stay in the UK because our poloce are not armed and terrorists tend to be arrested and imprisoned and not shot on sight.
and I asked you justify that with a case at the European court as I wasn't aware of one. Appears neither are you but then given you seemed to take the position that the Court only was involved  after  the Human Rights Act, perhaps not surprising that you don't know about cases.

jeremyp

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2016, 01:24:38 AM »
Appalling business. I've signed.
Don't understand the references to Cherie Blair - I may have missed something.
She's a human rights lawyer.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2016, 01:43:06 AM »
I'ts difficult to know what to make of it. It has hardly been mentioned in the media let alone discussed. Are all journalists so worn-out after Brexit that they just can't be bothered with anything other than the usual 'Silly Season' stuff?
I read it, hence the link I posted. Maybe you should read the news.

Owlswing

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2016, 04:52:07 AM »
and I asked you justify that with a case at the European court as I wasn't aware of one. Appears neither are you but then given you seemed to take the position that the Court only was involved  after  the Human Rights Act, perhaps not surprising that you don't know about cases.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/european-human-rights-judges-ban-terror-case-extradition-8575111.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/669107/european-union-eu-theresa-may-terror-suspects-david-davis-home-secretary-conservative
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L.A.

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Re: Human Rights Act
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2016, 06:25:21 AM »
I read it, hence the link I posted. Maybe you should read the news.

Bit busy herding the grandchildren around just at the moment, but I haven't heard anything on the news or seen anything in the headlines.
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