Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.

[Bubbles]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37294187

We are too.

[jeremyp]

I'm astonished the French allow us to do all this.

[Hope]

It's a rather different wall, Rose, but I'm not sure that it's sensible use of money.  It isn't dealing with the problem, just moving its location.

[Jack Knave]

I'm astonished the French allow us to do all this.

I'm astonished the French have allow this mess to build up. Why didn't they send them back from where they came from or stopped them coming in in the first place? Oh that's right crappy Schengen!!!

[Jack Knave]

It's a rather different wall, Rose, but I'm not sure that it's sensible use of money.  It isn't dealing with the problem, just moving its location.

This is what you get from the crappy EU!!!

[Bubbles]

This is what you get from the crappy EU!!!

It's not really the EU 's fault.

They would still be there EU or not.

They want a decent life where if they fall ill and need treatment they get it.

IMO them wanting to come here so badly makes me realise how fortunate we are in the uk, and how our society looks after us.

It's not perfect, but it's more then they get in the places they have come from.

It's a pity some other countries arn't stable and pleasant places to live.

We are so lucky.

[BeRational]

It's not really the EU 's fault.

They would still be there EU or not.

They want a decent life where if they fall ill and need treatment they get it.

IMO them wanting to come here so badly makes me realise how fortunate we are in the uk, and how our society looks after us.

It's not perfect, but it's more then they get in the places they have come from.

It's a pity some other countries arn't stable and pleasant places to live.

We are so lucky.

The thing that I have a problem is, that these people are in FRANCE!

France is stable and pleasant place to live. These people are NOT refugees fleeing persecution and terror as they have ALREADY reached safety.

[floo]

The thing that I have a problem is, that these people are in FRANCE!

France is stable and pleasant place to live. These people are NOT refugees fleeing persecution and terror as they have ALREADY reached safety.

And living in a Jungle!

[BeRational]

And living in a Jungle!

Of their own making though.

They could assimilate into France, just as they would like to in the UK.

The point is that they are safe, and no longer refugees.

[floo]

Of their own making though.

They could assimilate into France, just as they would like to in the UK.

The point is that they are safe, and no longer refugees.

Of course they are still refugees!

[BeRational]

Of course they are still refugees!

Not now, they are safe.

They are now economic migrants.

You stop being a refugee when you reach a safe country.

As I say, they are in a France. A great country. I would not mind living there at all.

It like finding yourself in Canada, and wanting to go the the US.

[BashfulAnthony]

BR is correct.  Once in a safe country they are classed as migrants.  They are technically France's responsibility to deal with them, either as asylum seekers, or send them back to their country of origin, if it is safe to do so.  They are not our responsibility. It's worth mentioning that we are sending France cash to help deal with the problem when others might be less helpfuI.

I wonder why they are so keen to come here when France is a desirable place to live?

[floo]

Not now, they are safe.

They are now economic migrants.

You stop being a refugee when you reach a safe country.

As I say, they are in a France. A great country. I would not mind living there at all.

It like finding yourself in Canada, and wanting to go the the US.

You are still a refugee until you are settled in a home not a garbage dump, imo!

[jeremyp]

You are still a refugee until you are settled in a home not a garbage dump, imo!

That's not the point. The point is that they are in the EU already and should really be processed as asylum seekers or illegal immigrants in France.

[floo]

That's not the point. The point is that they are in the EU already and should really be processed as asylum seekers or illegal immigrants in France.

They are still refugees.

[BeRational]

They are still refugees.

Are they fleeing persecution from France?

No, they are safe, and they are now just wanting to pick and choose.

Real refugees are happy just to be safe. They have achieved that.

[jeremyp]

They are still refugees.

That.

Is.

Not.

The.

Point.

[floo]

That.

Is.

Not.

The.

Point.

And your point is?

[BeRational]

And your point is?

They are safe, and do not need to come to the UK to avoid persecution.

Coming to the UK is a financial decision.

[floo]

They are safe, and do not need to come to the UK to avoid persecution.

Coming to the UK is a financial decision.

NIMBY!

[BashfulAnthony]

NIMBY!

Don't be silly.  We have a net surplus of migrants entering this country of 330,000 a year!  We send more in aid to other countries than anyone else, other than the US.  We have considerable poverty here, including a high rate of child poverty.  The food banks are more active than ever.  We are still a country deep in debt, and we cannot be all things to all people.

[Sebastian Toe]

They are still refugees.

A refugee is a person who ‘owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country…’
(Definition quoted from the 1951 Refugee Convention)

Legally, an asylum seeker is a person who has applied for asylum in the UK and is waiting for a decision on his or her claim. A refugee on the other hand has already received a positive decision from the authorities on his or her asylum claim. So, strictly speaking the migrants in Calais are neither refugees or asylum seekers from a UK legal perspective – at least as long as they remain in French territory.

.
However some of the will be economic migrants.
The term economic migrant is often confused with the term refugee, but economic migrants leave their country due to bad economic conditions, not due to fear of persecution on the basis of race, religion, or ethnicity.

[floo]

I reckon many of us would become economic migrants too if we lived in a country where the living conditions were intolerable and we faced starvation.

[BashfulAnthony]

I reckon many of us would become economic migrants too if we lived in a country where the living conditions were intolerable and we faced starvation.

And the economic migrants in Calais are now in a stable country that can offer them what they need to live decently.  So why need to come here, and be prepared to be violent in order to do so?  Why those attacking lorry drivers should think that makes us liable to embrace their cause baffles me.

[Sebastian Toe]

I reckon many of us would become economic migrants too if we lived in a country where the living conditions were intolerable and we faced starvation.

Are you happy that all economic migrants who wish to live in the UK, get that wish granted?