Author Topic: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.  (Read 13235 times)

floo

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2016, 01:37:25 PM »
Are you happy that all economic migrants who wish to live in the UK, get that wish granted?

As long as they are prepared to be good citizens of this country and play their part.  I could be considered a migrant as I wasn't born in the UK.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2016, 01:53:18 PM »
As long as they are prepared to be good citizens of this country and play their part. 
How do you determine that when they apply to come here?
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Sebastian Toe

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2016, 01:57:46 PM »
As long as they are prepared to be good citizens of this country and play their part.  I could be considered a migrant as I wasn't born in the UK.

And you would have no objections for an immigration camp being built next to your property to hold several thousand people whilst they wait an indeterminate time to get jobs and housing?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
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floo

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2016, 02:02:26 PM »
And you would have no objections for an immigration camp being built next to your property to hold several thousand people whilst they wait an indeterminate time to get jobs and housing?

We haven't such camps in the UK have we?

Udayana

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2016, 02:13:26 PM »
A refugee is a person who ‘owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country…’
(Definition quoted from the 1951 Refugee Convention)

Legally, an asylum seeker is a person who has applied for asylum in the UK and is waiting for a decision on his or her claim. A refugee on the other hand has already received a positive decision from the authorities on his or her asylum claim. So, strictly speaking the migrants in Calais are neither refugees or asylum seekers from a UK legal perspective – at least as long as they remain in French territory.

.
However some of the will be economic migrants.
The term economic migrant is often confused with the term refugee, but economic migrants leave their country due to bad economic conditions, not due to fear of persecution on the basis of race, religion, or ethnicity.

Ah, yes. The first rule is that everyone needs to be treated according to their label. Label missing? ... then straight into the bin.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2016, 02:27:04 PM »
We haven't such camps in the UK have we?
But we might need them if we allow everyone in that wants in.
So if we do....you won't object if one is built next to you?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2016, 02:28:27 PM »
To me it is only common sense that an economic migrant must have a job to come to, somewhere to live, and a certain standard of English; and must be vetted as regards a possible criminal record, and also on medical grounds to ensure they are not carrying any serious transferable disease. I don't think any of that is in any sense unreasonable.
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Jack Knave

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2016, 04:10:01 PM »
It's not really the EU 's fault.

They would still be there EU or not.

They want a decent life where if they fall ill and need treatment they get it.

IMO them wanting to come here so badly makes me realise how fortunate we are in the uk, and how our society looks after us.

It's not perfect, but it's more then they get in the places they have come from.

It's a pity some other countries arn't stable and pleasant places to live.

We are so lucky.
That's because of our self serving leaders, over the odd hundred years or so have created these hell holes for their/our profit and gain. The EU is to blame as well as it has been inward looking, using its power to make trade only profitable to its self and to hinder good trade deals with other countries/continents like Africa. Their chickens are coming home to roust!!!

Jack Knave

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2016, 04:14:05 PM »
And living in a Jungle!
Made by themselves.

Jack Knave

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2016, 04:20:43 PM »
As long as they are prepared to be good citizens of this country and play their part.  I could be considered a migrant as I wasn't born in the UK.
Well, that explains a lot!!!

Bubbles

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2016, 04:36:34 PM »
That's because of our self serving leaders, over the odd hundred years or so have created these hell holes for their/our profit and gain. The EU is to blame as well as it has been inward looking, using its power to make trade only profitable to its self and to hinder good trade deals with other countries/continents like Africa. Their chickens are coming home to roust!!!

No, other countries like France and Spain also colonised countries, but they don't have our welfare system and the immigrants arn't looking to stay in those countries.



Jack Knave

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2016, 04:45:32 PM »
No, other countries like France and Spain also colonised countries, but they don't have our welfare system and the immigrants arn't looking to stay in those countries.
France has that problem, but I was also talking about how we have supported dictators who have ruled with an iron fist and worked with the West for each others' gains but not for the people.

And they aren't coming here for those things they are coming for jobs, the fact that many speak English so it is an easy option and they think Britain is paradise.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 04:49:59 PM by Jack Knave »

floo

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2016, 04:57:17 PM »

Jack Knave

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2016, 05:07:12 PM »
Meaning?
Your whole attitude. You probably have very little psychological connections to this place and so are quite happy to give it away free of charge. Like politicians throwing tax payers money around because it has no costs to them. People all always generous with other peoples' possessions.

floo

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2016, 05:44:04 PM »
Your whole attitude. You probably have very little psychological connections to this place and so are quite happy to give it away free of charge. Like politicians throwing tax payers money around because it has no costs to them. People all always generous with other peoples' possessions.

You are talking through your bottom! I have every right to live in the UK having a British passport and have lived here for nearly three quarters of my life, 47 years to be exact.  I am half English, a quarter Channel Islander and a quarter Irish. I wouldn't wish to live anywhere else and have plenty of psychological attachment to the country, my husband and children are English.

This country is built on migrants very few can trace their ancestry back to the original Anglo Saxon occupants, as most are incomers.

Hope

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2016, 05:46:28 PM »
Of course they are still refugees!
Technically, they are no longer refugees, Floo.  That term has very stringently defined meanings if you care to look it up, and as people have already said here, once they have reached Europe they no longer fit into those definitions.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Hope

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2016, 05:47:48 PM »
This country is built on migrants very few can trace their ancestry back to the original Anglo Saxon occupants, as most are incomers.
Precisely, Floo; this country is built on migrants - and only very few refugees.  Remember that whilst migrants are allowed to work, but many refugees struggle to get work in their early days/months because of their undeterminate status.  Only once they have been given permission to reside, can they start to work.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 05:50:15 PM by Hope »
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2016, 05:49:46 PM »
"This country is built on migrants very few can trace their ancestry back to the original Anglo Saxon occupants, as most are incomers."


All that is irrelevant.  The problems today are unique in our history, and are fraught with social and economic, not to mention securit, problems, on an unprecedented scale.
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It is my commandment that you love one another."

Jack Knave

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2016, 05:52:00 PM »
You are talking through your bottom! I have every right to live in the UK having a British passport and have lived here for nearly three quarters of my life, 47 years to be exact.  I am half English, a quarter Channel Islander and a quarter Irish. I wouldn't wish to live anywhere else and have plenty of psychological attachment to the country, my husband and children are English.

This country is built on migrants very few can trace their ancestry back to the original Anglo Saxon occupants, as most are incomers.
So if 5 million came in each year and some parked outside your house or begged in your high street and so on and littered the place up and lived like pigs and smelling like them etc., you'd be quite happy about it?

floo

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2016, 05:56:45 PM »
So if 5 million came in each year and some parked outside your house or begged in your high street and so on and littered the place up and lived like pigs and smelling like them etc., you'd be quite happy about it?

You are unpleasant! I hope you never have to escape from a war torn country and live in the conditions those poor people have to endure.

Udayana

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2016, 05:57:36 PM »
No, other countries like France and Spain also colonised countries, but they don't have our welfare system and the immigrants arn't looking to stay in those countries.

hmm, of-course France, Spain .. also Italy, Germany have plenty of people looking to immigrate .. in general. 3rd world immigrants tend to prefer to go to the countries that colonised them, mainly due to family members already there, language and other cultural issues. Also they may well feel they have a right to. I don't think they are intending to live on "benefits".
 
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2016, 05:58:45 PM »
hmm, of-course France, Spain .. also Italy, Germany have plenty of people looking to immigrate .. in general. 3rd world immigrants tend to prefer to go to the countries that colonised them, mainly due to family members already there, language and other cultural issues. Also they may well feel they have a right too. I don't think they are intending to live on "benefits".

Not sure about that suggestion. 
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2016, 06:06:07 PM »
hmm, of-course France, Spain .. also Italy, Germany have plenty of people looking to immigrate .. in general. 3rd world immigrants tend to prefer to go to the countries that colonised them, mainly due to family members already there, language and other cultural issues. Also they may well feel they have a right too. I don't think they are intending to live on "benefits".

Not sure about that suggestion.  We have immigrants here from almost every country on Earth, and we certainly didn't colonise them all. If you are a migrant you will choose a country you perceive to be able to offer you the most advantageous options.  I don't think the high number of Syrian or Afghanistan would-be migrants are a throw-back to our colonial past. As I said before, France is a desirable new country for either asylum-seekers or economic migrants, and France has a colonial past, but it doesn't seem to be an over-riding fact with the migrants in Calais, for example.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 06:08:35 PM by BashfulAnthony »
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Jack Knave

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2016, 06:06:08 PM »
You are unpleasant! I hope you never have to escape from a war torn country and live in the conditions those poor people have to endure.
You didn't answer the question!!!

And those wore torn countries have been war torn by the West over the centuries for their own greed and no doubt you have voted some of them into power.

Udayana

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Re: Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2016, 07:58:59 PM »
Not sure about that suggestion.  We have immigrants here from almost every country on Earth, and we certainly didn't colonise them all. If you are a migrant you will choose a country you perceive to be able to offer you the most advantageous options.  I don't think the high number of Syrian or Afghanistan would-be migrants are a throw-back to our colonial past. As I said before, France is a desirable new country for either asylum-seekers or economic migrants, and France has a colonial past, but it doesn't seem to be an over-riding fact with the migrants in Calais, for example.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/12111108/Mapped-Which-country-has-the-most-immigrants.html

Further into the article is a comparison of UK against other G8 countries.

UK does not have (relatively) many from Syria. Migrants from Afghanistan were rare before our joint action with the US but increased as refugees fled through Pakistan, and were trafficked from there.

The most advantageous options are usually in places where you have the best contacts.

The migrants in Calais are just a few thousand, mostly from Asia, most migrants in France are from North and sub-Saharan Africa.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now