Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Strange:  all those jobs were done in the past, before the large numbers of migrants were allowed in because of the EU.  The point is, these EU workers are very often working here on wages which are undercutting people here.  I do wish some of you people would look more closely into the facts, and get a grip on what is actually happening.

Which is why the Brexiteers stressed control of immigration and borders rather than control of numbers and even supporting non EU immigration as opposed to EU immigration.

That covers them for letting in even cheaper labour.

I'm sure the Brexit campaigners don't hate the indigenous Briton...........they just want her to work for less.

[BashfulAnthony]

Which is why the Brexiteers stressed control of immigration and borders rather than control of numbers and even supporting non EU immigration as opposed to EU immigration.

That covers them for letting in even cheaper labour.

I'm sure the Brexit campaigners don't hate the indigenous Briton...........they just want her to work for less.

You seem to know a lot about the thinking of 17,000,000 people!  Where do you get your info?

[Brownie]

Strange:  all those jobs were done in the past, before the large numbers of migrants were allowed in because of the EU.  The point is, these EU workers are very often working here on wages which are undercutting people here.  I do wish some of you people would look more closely into the facts, and get a grip on what is actually happening.

I couldn't give a monkey's if immigrants do a job cheaper and undercut other people, as long as they are not exploited!   A lot of them become self employed after a while.  They work harder, do a decent job, are reliable which is not something to be sneezed at, polite and humourous.  Anyone who has employed an 'EU immigrant builder', gardener, cleaner or driver will tell you the same.  Jolly good luck to them.

[BashfulAnthony]

I couldn't give a monkey's if immigrants do a job cheaper and undercut other people, as long as they are not exploited!   A lot of them become self employed after a while.  They work harder, do a decent job, are reliable which is not something to be sneezed at, polite and humourous.  Anyone who has employed an 'EU immigrant builder', gardener, cleaner or driver will tell you the same.  Jolly good luck to them.

There are a million Poles alone in this country; I don't know how many other EU nationals, probably another million who were not born here.  And many of them are taking employment off our work-force.  That may not worry someone as complacent as you, but it matters to our work-force and their families, and it matters, ultimately to the country's economy.  And of the millions of migrant workers who are so hard-working and diligent, how many can you vouch for:  a couple of hundred thousand?  Or perhaps one or two!!!  To say they are all so commendable is a silly claim, impossible to substantiate.  Anyway, good luck to them, and the devil take the rest, eh..

And just a thought:  if all these Polish workers are so hard-working and diligent, how come Poland is doing so poorly in economic terms, so that they have to find work elsewhere?

[Brownie]

Oy Anthony, I was a diligent member of the work force once and my husband still is, so is son!  We have all worked with and known many people from different countries.

I understood Poland was quite up and coming economically but these things take time.  Since when have people in this country objected to Poles anyway?  A lot of Polish people have gone back to Poland, people come and go, especially young ones.  Likewise, English people go elsewhere for more money and sometimes come back.

[BashfulAnthony]

Oy Anthony, I was a diligent member of the work force once and my husband still is, so is son!  We have all worked with and known many people from different countries.

I understood Poland was quite up and coming economically but these things take time.  Since when have people in this country objected to Poles anyway?  A lot of Polish people have gone back to Poland, people come and go, especially young ones.  Likewise, English people go elsewhere for more money and sometimes come back.

I am not against Poles, or anyone else.  I am for this country and its success in the world. Neither am I against the movement of people.   But like anything else, it should be in moderation.  At the moment this country is taking in more than it can sensibly manage.  The pressure on our infrastructure is becoming more and more onerous. Housing, education and the precious NHS are in crisis.  It makes sense by any standard to manage these numbers rather than let matters slide further and further into difficulty.

Have a good night.

[Brownie]

Thanks Bash, had a flippin' awful night, hardly slept!  Hee hee, that's life.  Quite good day today though so far.

We are all entitled to say what we think and we have.  Hope you are having a good day.

[BashfulAnthony]

Thanks Bash, had a flippin' awful night, hardly slept!  Hee hee, that's life.  Quite good day today though so far.

We are all entitled to say what we think and we have.  Hope you are having a good day.

I'm lucky these days.  If I'm tired I nap;  if I'm not tired I stay up and do something. I've had a busy day, so I'll rest tonight, and try to think of devastating comments to post!

[Brownie]

Wot you?  Never! 

[jeremyp]

A few corrections to your shabby and deceitful post:

Firstly, it is both an untruth and a pretty despicable slur to accuse me of whipping up hysteria.

Lying about the illusory dangers of immigration is pretty shabby and despicable.

I make reasonable and debatable points.

Why don't you debate them then?

why don't you answer my points regarding  the NHS, housing, and schools with regard to immigration?

I told you: these historic highs in immigration still represent  drop in the ocean. If the NHS, schools and housignare problematic, it is nothing to do with immigration.

I have no fear of immigration at all, but only a sensible and realistic approach to a difficult situation.

Why are you lashing out against it then?

I spoke of areas of high immigrant population being mainly out-voters.  You made the absurd comment that how could they  be as  presumably migrants would have voted Remain.

No I didn't. Read my comment again, this time for comprehension.

You said that areas of high immigration voted to leave. I did not dispute that assertion, I pointed out that if the areas where immigration id high voted leave, the immigrants must have been voting leave in general.

And, as usual, you accuse me of insulting you.

Well you do. Let's see....

 

Take a look at yourself and try very hard to see yourself as others do:  arrogant, self-important, supercilious, and a self-appointed expert on all things: religion, politics, sport, science.  You confuse insult with truthfulness.

Take a look in the mirror.

And finally, the hypocrisy:  to accuse me of insult and yet finish your appalling post with your habitual obscenity.

Fuck you.

Oh look, I did it again. Maybe you should take a look at some of my other posts and try to understand why I usually only throw the obscenities into my posts to you.

Try and see how ridiculous your arguments appear.  Of course, it is plain that your bile is down to the fact that the majority did not follow your learned example, and vote Remain.  In other words: you're a sore loser!

If you'd been around when the Brexit vote fiasco was happening, you'd know why I'm very angry about the result. In five years time when all the international companies have left, the banking sector has gone and Scotland has voted to leave xenophobic England to wallow pathetically in its past glories, you might understand why this was such  a bad, and cowardly decision.

[jeremyp]

I am for this country and its success in the world.

That's not going to happen now.

The pressure on our infrastructure is becoming more and more onerous. Housing, education and the precious NHS are in crisis.

The NHS is not in crisis because of immigrants. Without immigrants there would not be enough cleaners, porters, doctors and nurses. If you want to see the NHS in crisis, stop immigrants from being employed by it.

[wigginhall]

I don't think that the relation between numbers of immigrants and voting Leave or Remain is as simple as all that.  Some areas with high immigration voted Remain (many areas of London), and some areas with low immigration, vote Leave, e.g. Hartlepool.   In fact, it has become something of a cliche to say that low immigration predicts a Leave vote, but there are in fact other factors, e.g. age, education, and income.   Thus Leave voters tended to be older, less well educated, and lower paid.   However, there are outliers as well, which complicate the picture.

[BashfulAnthony]

Lying about the illusory dangers of immigration is pretty shabby and despicable.

Why don't you debate them then?

I told you: these historic highs in immigration still represent  drop in the ocean. If the NHS, schools and housignare problematic, it is nothing to do with immigration.


Why are you lashing out against it then?

No I didn't. Read my comment again, this time for comprehension.

You said that areas of high immigration voted to leave. I did not dispute that assertion, I pointed out that if the areas where immigration id high voted leave, the immigrants must have been voting leave in general.
Well you do. Let's see....

 
Take a look in the mirror.
Fuck you.

Oh look, I did it again. Maybe you should take a look at some of my other posts and try to understand why I usually only throw the obscenities into my posts to you.

If you'd been around when the Brexit vote fiasco was happening, you'd know why I'm very angry about the result. In five years time when all the international companies have left, the banking sector has gone and Scotland has voted to leave xenophobic England to wallow pathetically in its past glories, you might understand why this was such  a bad, and cowardly decision.

You use obscenities on a regular basis in all contexts.
You are just a self-important, foul-mouthed, narrow-minded, vitriolic, Referendum LOSER.   OOH, I insulted you  again!  No, not really.  It's all true!   Take another look in the mirror, and just remember the words of the blessed Robbie Burns.

[Sebastian Toe]

, and just remember the words of the blessed Robbie Burns.

Very true

D'ye mind that day when in a bizz
Wi' reekit duds, an' reestit gizz,
Ye did present your smoutie phiz
'Mang better folk,
An' sklented on the man of Uzz
Your spitefu' joke?

[BashfulAnthony]

Very true

D'ye mind that day when in a bizz
Wi' reekit duds, an' reestit gizz,
Ye did present your smoutie phiz
'Mang better folk,
An' sklented on the man of Uzz
Your spitefu' joke?

I wasn't referring to you, but hey, if the cap fits...

[floo]

That's not going to happen now.

The NHS is not in crisis because of immigrants. Without immigrants there would not be enough cleaners, porters, doctors and nurses. If you want to see the NHS in crisis, stop immigrants from being employed by it.

Good post. Some people with racist tendencies like to blame migrants the UK's problems which would still exist, migrants or no migrants.

[BashfulAnthony]

I think when a person suggests another has "racist tendencies," they should have the courage to name names:  put up, or shut up should be the key.   IF someone was to say that about me, I would give them a really hard time. As it happens they won't because I am not in the least racist.

[BashfulAnthony]

Good post. Some people with racist tendencies like to blame migrants the UK's problems which would still exist, migrants or no migrants.

The NHS is in financial crisis because it cannot cope with the demand on it. So, it makes sense to try and control the numbers using it.  That is the crisis,  and it has nothing to do with who is employed by it. 

[Aruntraveller]

The NHS is in financial crisis because it cannot cope with the demand on it. So, it makes sense to try and control the numbers using it.  That is the crisis,  and it has nothing to do with who is employed by it.

But the crisis in the NHS has very little to do with migrants and a lot more to do with an aging population combined with the severe cutbacks on social care thus creating bed blocking and all the consequences that brings for hospitals.

Whereas migrants are now essential for keeping the NHS running.

[floo]

But the crisis in the NHS has very little to do with migrants and a lot more to do with an aging population combined with the severe cutbacks on social care thus creating bed blocking and all the consequences that brings for hospitals.

Whereas migrants are now essential for keeping the NHS running.

It would be in a much worse mess without them.

[BashfulAnthony]

But the crisis in the NHS has very little to do with migrants and a lot more to do with an aging population combined with the severe cutbacks on social care thus creating bed blocking and all the consequences that brings for hospitals.

Whereas migrants are now essential for keeping the NHS running.

As I have said, I am well aware of the input of overseas workers in the NHS,  but that is not what I am arguing.  I agree with your analysis of the reasons why there is an NHS crisis.  What I am arguing is that it makes sense to address the problems where we can.  It would be excellent if the Government were to relent on cut-backs - not very likely.  But it is more realistic in the current climate to control migration, and not just for the NHS, but to alleviate the housing crisis, and the difficulties schools face.

[Sebastian Toe]

The NHS is in financial crisis because it cannot cope with the demand on it. So, it makes sense to try and control the numbers using it. 

Introduce compulsory euthanasia?

[BashfulAnthony]

Introduce compulsory euthanasia?

I'm sure that would appeal to someone like you.

[Sebastian Toe]

I'm sure that would appeal to someone like you.

Someone like me?
What exactly is, someone like me?

[floo]

Introduce compulsory euthanasia?

I have often mused that compulsory euthanasia when one reaches a certain age, might be introduced one day if Earth's population became unsustainable.