Donald Trump isn't the only one building a wall.

[Brownie]

I think when a person suggests another has "racist tendencies," they should have the courage to name names:  put up, or shut up should be the key.   IF someone was to say that about me, I would give them a really hard time. As it happens they won't because I am not in the least racist.

That's all very well Bash but we will all be with people at times who display certain attitudes but we won't necessarily remember their names and, even if we do, it would be wrong to name names of ordinary people on a forum like this.  We can 'name names' when it comes to public figures, that is fair game, but not people, for example, whom we've met at work, at a friend's house, a neighbour or maybe even family.

Nobody's going to name you;  even if we they disagree with your opinions you don't display any personal animosity towards people from 'elsewhere' - you don't say, "These flipping foreigners..!", etc.  At least I haven't seen that from you.

[Aruntraveller]

I have often mused that compulsory euthanasia when one reaches a certain age, might be introduced one day if Earth's population became unsustainable.

Hmm....Carousel.

[Harrowby Hall]

Hmm....Carousel.

Carousel?

Logan's Run more like.

[BashfulAnthony]

That's all very well Bash but we will all be with people at times who display certain attitudes but we won't necessarily remember their names and, even if we do, it would be wrong to name names of ordinary people on a forum like this.  We can 'name names' when it comes to public figures, that is fair game, but not people, for example, whom we've met at work, at a friend's house, a neighbour or maybe even family.

Nobody's going to name you;  even if we they disagree with your opinions you don't display any personal animosity towards people from 'elsewhere' - you don't say, "These flipping foreigners..!", etc.  At least I haven't seen that from you.

You won't see any of that name-calling about migrants from me.  Why should I?  I simply make by arguments, purely in debate.  I have no personal animosity to anyone, never have had - except a few bits, on here, in retaliation, to jp, and a few others; people I  know nothing about in reality, and who are probably a nice enough guys, off here.  My point was that if you are prepared to make covert accusations, then it is cowardly and is open to people jumping to all kinds of accusations.  If what you believe is so, then say it, instead of hiding behind innuendo.  It's a horrid way to post.

[Brownie]

I wasn't actually thinking about people on forums, Anthony, but people we rub up against in the outside world. Like if I came on here and talked about my neighbour's friends, Betty Squires and her husband (fictional people), whom I encountered at a barbecue;  that would be unfair, however I might say I'd come across certain characters with a particular attitude. Which we all do.

Certainly there should never be dark hints about fellow posters, unless it is obvious that could lead to all sorts of speculation.  Far better to say what we have to say to the poster or keep quiet.  So I agree with you on that.  Also not to say anything about anyone privately that we would not want public, always keep it innocuous.

To move on, here is a nice picture of Mr Trump:

http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/DonaldTrump

[floo]

That picture is too flattering!

[BashfulAnthony]

I wasn't actually thinking about people on forums, Anthony, but people we rub up against in the outside world. Like if I came on here and talked about my neighbour's friends, Betty Squires and her husband (fictional people), whom I encountered at a barbecue;  that would be unfair, however I might say I'd come across certain characters with a particular attitude. Which we all do.

Certainly there should never be dark hints about fellow posters, unless it is obvious that could lead to all sorts of speculation.  Far better to say what we have to say to the poster or keep quiet.  So I agree with you on that.  Also not to say anything about anyone privately that we would not want public, always keep it innocuous.

To move on, here is a nice picture of Mr Trump:

http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/DonaldTrump

Thanks for the thought; but I won't look at the pic right now: I don't expect to see anything nice about Donald.  Anyway, I'm just about to have my dinner!!!

[Aruntraveller]

Carousel?

Logan's Run more like.

That IS what I was thinking about - when they ascended to the ceiling and sparked out of existence it was called Carousel.

[Nearly Sane]

I am fully aware of that, and this country does more than every one else, apart from the US, in providing money and resources to help:  we have a basic foreign aid budget of ｣12 billion a year!  We give more than all the rest of the precious EU put together, and we are, after all, bankrupt.  We cannot be everything to every one.  We do a great deal, and I care as much as the next about the needy, but there is such a thing as being realistic, and we still have poor and needy here; we are still seeing food banks growing in number; we still have many homeless.  We do a lot for those in trouble.

Just to point out that we give more than any single country in the EU in absolute terns, there are a number of countries that give more % wise and in no way do we give more than the rest of the EU put together. In fact overall that give about three times what we give. So please check your facts

[Nearly Sane]

Just to point out that we give more than any single country in the EU in absolute terns, there are a number of countries that give more % wise and in no way do we give more than the rest of the EU put together. In fact overall that give about three times what we give. So please

I'd be interested to see the figures you suggest, and see how factual they are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors

So what figures did you have to make your claim?

[BashfulAnthony]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors

So what figures did you have to make your claim?

Look up, "List of development aid country donors." Where did you get yours?

[Nearly Sane]

Look up, "List of development aid country donors." Where did you get yours?

The same place, it disproves your claim that the UK gives more than the rest of the EU combined.

[BashfulAnthony]

The same place, it disproves your claim that the UK gives more than the rest of the EU combined.

There's little in it.  The point is, we are massive contributors compared to all but the US, and to a lesser extent, Germany.

[Nearly Sane]

There's little in it.  The point is, we are massive contributors compared to all but the US, and to a lesser extent, Germany.

  err no there's not. From your own source the total from the EU is 87.64 billion dollars and from the UK 18.70 bn. This means that the rest of the Eu gives 68.94 bn which is 3 and a half times the UK total. So not only more than the UK gives which was your original statement but not even close to being a little in it either.

Further as I pointed out earlier the countries giving more in % terms are in the main in the EU

[BashfulAnthony]

  err no there's not. From your own source the total from the EU is 87.64 billion dollars and from the UK 18.70 bn. This means that the rest of the Eu gives 68.94 bn which is 3 and a half times the UK total. So not only more than the UK gives which was your original statement but not even close to being a little in it either.

Further as I pointed out earlier the countries giving more in % terms are in the main in the EU

The EU figure includes all put together, and is the figure for the EU as a whole, including money paid in by the UK, and is independent of the UK's individual contribution..  Look down the list for each country's individual contribution.

[Nearly Sane]

[The EU figure includes all put together, and is not independent of the UK.  Cut out ours and Germany's contributions.  Look further down the list for each country's individual contribution.

why are you cutting out Germany's contribution?

[BashfulAnthony]

why are you cutting out Germany's contribution?

I am making a point that the UK gives an inordinate amount of aid compared to others. I am not complaining about this:  why do you question it?  Your argument should be aimed at those who give little. or less.  And don't say it's because they are poor:  we are bankrupt, and still give freely. 

[Nearly Sane]

I am making a point that the UK gives an inordinate amount of aid compared to others. I am not complaining about this:  why do you question it?  Your argument should be aimed at those who give little. or less.  And don't say it's because they are poor:  we are bankrupt, and still give freely.

you made a statement that the UK gave more than the rest of the EU combined. When I pointed out this was wring you then said there was little difference, which us also wring. Further you lpwant to look at it in absolute terns and seem to think that % donation isn't important which is economically illiterate.

Why are you avoiding just saying that you were wrong?

Oh and while we are on it, we are not bankrupt.

[BashfulAnthony]

you made a statement that the UK gave more than the rest of the EU combined. When I pointed out this was wring you then said there was little difference, which us also wring. Further you lpwant to look at it in absolute terns and seem to think that % donation isn't important which is economically illiterate.

Why are you avoiding just saying that you were wrong?

Oh and while we are on it, we are not bankrupt.

I was not "wring,"  and any country who owes tens of billions, and is still borrowing more than it earns is, technically, in all but name, bankrupt.  We are borrowing to pay our debts; in fact, that is a pretty good definition of bankruptcy.

[Nearly Sane]

I was not "wring,"  and any country who owes tens of billions, and is still borrowing more than it earns is, technically, in all but name, bankrupt.

You were indeed wrong in saying the UK gave more than rest of  the EU combined just admit it.

I also wouldn't use words like 'technically' in regards to bankruptcy. Because in the subject of bankruptcy, it has a technical meaning covering being unable to repay debts, not as you seem to want to use it as being in debt. So in addition to having been wrong about the UK's donations, both in the original statement about it giving more than rest of the EU combined,and wrong when you then said there was not much difference in it, you are technically wrong here as well.


By the way can you explain why you wanted to cut Germany's contributions out of the figures?

[BashfulAnthony]

You were indeed wrong in saying the UK gave more than rest of  the EU combined just admit it.

I also wouldn't use words like 'technically' in regards to bankruptcy. Because in the subject of bankruptcy, it has a technical meaning covering being unable to repay debts, not as you seem to want to use it as being in debt. So in addition to having been wrong about the UK's donations, both in the original statement about it giving more than rest of the EU combined,and wrong when you then said there was not much difference in it, you are technically wrong here as well.


By the way can you explain why you wanted to cut Germany's contributions out of the figures?

We are unable to repay our debts without borrowing massively - that IS a definition of bankruptcy, technically.

I only exempted Germany in order to highlight the huge differential with all the other EU countries. So what?

[jeremyp]

We are unable to repay our debts without borrowing massively - that IS a definition of bankruptcy, technically.

no it isn't, bankruptcy is being unable to pay your creditors.

[BashfulAnthony]

no it isn't, bankruptcy is being unable to pay your creditors.

We are unable to pay our creditors, unless we borrow to do so.

[Nearly Sane]

We are unable to pay our creditors, unless we borrow to do so.

Which is technically not bankruptcy

[BashfulAnthony]

Which is technically not bankruptcy

 I've been posting now for a couple of hours and I only meant to have a quick look in.  I must go and have some lunch and get a few things done.

Whatever you're doing this afternoon, have a good one.