The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ

[Walter]

Or you're just wrong.

about what ? that my grandmother shouldn't get down from the mantle piece cos she's too old to ride the range .
Or that I shouldn't play marbles with my dads glass eye cos he needs it to look for work

[Maeght]

about what ? that my grandmother shouldn't get down from the mantle piece cos she's too old to ride the range .
Or that I shouldn't play marbles with my dads glass eye cos he needs it to look for work

That NM's a WUM (and that we couldn't see that) - or wasn't that what you meant? It was hard to see through your attempt to appear witty, off the wall and clever, as ever.

[Anchorman]

It's all in the eye of the beholder. The atrocities in Egypt were because a whole nation of people were being held against their will and being treated abysmally, over many years, and without any hope what-so-ever. After a number of plagues we are told God authorised what you now complain about. I seem to remember that Moses himself was a survivor of a similar spat but at the hands of the Egyptians this time. What we know without a shadow of doubt that there were miserable and violent attitudes in those days but God saw fit to administer his direct help to a people he had future plans for...but he didn't hide the fact that he was a mighty God who doesn't argue with riff-raf. That's why these last days are a time when we shouldn't argue with him or his much loved son who died at the will of his father to show the faithful that death has been overcome. It is those who are at the mercy of the people traffickers who are being fooled as the Egyptian pharaoh tried to fool God...that I feel sorry for.

I'm Going to regret this; I was aiming for the "Egypt....where else ?" thread, and this came up.... I might seem a bit picky, NM, but you're the one who tries to provide 'evidence'. Can I gently point out out that there is not a shred of evidence to confirm the presence of a massive nation of Semitic origin as a slave race in Egypt's Delta? Not a single shred....and evidence is a problem in Egypt; not a dearth, but a surfiet. You can't move for the stuff. On the other hand, most Biblical scholars, even evangelicals such as myself, are perfectly willing to concede the re-writing/editing of the Pentateuch at the time of Exile (Jeremiah) which, whilst retains its value as theology, casts great doubts on its value as history.

[NicholasMarks]

I'm Going to regret this; I was aiming for the "Egypt....where else ?" thread, and this came up.... I might seem a bit picky, NM, but you're the one who tries to provide 'evidence'. Can I gently point out out that there is not a shred of evidence to confirm the presence of a massive nation of Semitic origin as a slave race in Egypt's Delta? Not a single shred....and evidence is a problem in Egypt; not a dearth, but a surfiet. You can't move for the stuff. On the other hand, most Biblical scholars, even evangelicals such as myself, are perfectly willing to concede the re-writing/editing of the Pentateuch at the time of Exile (Jeremiah) which, whilst retains its value as theology, casts great doubts on its value as history.

If I am reading you correctly, Anchorman, you are saying you don't believe in the Holy Bible. That's okay. The fact that it brought together a nation that still exists today and articulates accurately their many plights is a point of reference mainly for us Christians. You see, the Egyptian leaders followed a philosophy that today, many other nations follow. It is all about replacing truth and honesty with imagery and deceit so that the common man can be enslaved by the wicked behaviour of those who claim to be in authority...who do little except disguise their lack of action by clever manipulation whilst drawing a fat salary for their efforts.

Jesus Christ specializes in lifting us out of that slavery by our righteous integrity and failure to take him seriously enslaves us by the electrical/nervous responses of our own health...Its a vicious circle that only righteousness, after the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ can break, and he believed implicitly that the Holy Bible is true.
 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If I am reading you correctly, Anchorman, you are saying you don't believe in the Holy Bible. That's okay. The fact that it brought together a nation that still exists today

If you are talking about Isreal/The jewish nation, The new testament is not accepted in the majority.

[NicholasMarks]

If you are talking about Isreal/The jewish nation, The new testament is not accepted in the majority.

They have a problem then, don't they??

You see...Righteousness, as taught by Jesus Christ, is a science...an electric science that will not and cannot be altered. It's all about attaching ourselves to a cure-all energy...it is owned by Almighty God and will deliver everlasting life...Those who can't adjust to that science will be considered unsalvageable...and not saved...be they Jew, Christian, Islamic, or plain old atheist.

[Anchorman]

If I am reading you correctly, Anchorman, you are saying you don't believe in the Holy Bible. That's okay. The fact that it brought together a nation that still exists today and articulates accurately their many plights is a point of reference mainly for us Christians. You see, the Egyptian leaders followed a philosophy that today, many other nations follow. It is all about replacing truth and honesty with imagery and deceit so that the common man can be enslaved by the wicked behaviour of those who claim to be in authority...who do little except disguise their lack of action by clever manipulation whilst drawing a fat salary for their efforts.

Jesus Christ specializes in lifting us out of that slavery by our righteous integrity and failure to take him seriously enslaves us by the electrical/nervous responses of our own health...Its a vicious circle that only righteousness, after the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ can break, and he believed implicitly that the Holy Bible is true.
 

What 'philosophy' did the 'Egyptian leaders' follow, NM?
That's a new one on me.
One of the papers I submitted en rout to my degree in Egyptology was the convoluted religious thought in the first part of the New Kingdom....around the time many Biblical scholars think Israel was supposed to be in the Delta. If you can define exactly what the Egyptians belived, then your doctorate is on its' way....'cos I can categorically assure you that no-one else can.
Again, you've been reading too many spurious websites or books - real scholars will freely admit that what we DON'T know about the Egyptian religious practices is still a heck of a lot more thanh what we DO know!

[NicholasMarks]

What 'philosophy' did the 'Egyptian leaders' follow, NM?
That's a new one on me.
One of the papers I submitted en rout to my degree in Egyptology was the convoluted religious thought in the first part of the New Kingdom....around the time many Biblical scholars think Israel was supposed to be in the Delta. If you can define exactly what the Egyptians belived, then your doctorate is on its' way....'cos I can categorically assure you that no-one else can.
Again, you've been reading too many spurious websites or books - real scholars will freely admit that what we DON'T know about the Egyptian religious practices is still a heck of a lot more thanh what we DO know!

What I know about ancient peoples and ancient oppression is that if you set up a system whereby the people are told over and over again they must follow false gods and everyone in on the con, the priests and the traders, the kings, the princes and the pharaohs and all those who benefit from these false concepts are the greatest followers of these false religions, forcing the common people into servitude under the need to satisfy these false gods.

The Romans formed their own style of it and death and torture were the chosen tools these torturers used to defend their enslavement of the masses.

You may have noticed that within these paradigms, child sacrifices etc flourished and it was all play acting to oppress the common people...and it continues today...in its various modified forms.

Jesus Christ delivered a science, built upon truth, honesty and righteousness, that neutralizes these evil systems and this is why evil wants to overpower and discredit his accurate teaching.
 
 

[Anchorman]

Whoa! NM, you've been watching too many Hollywood movies. "Opressed"? About the only oppression we can detect in the population of Egypt was that imposed by Akhenaten when he worked his own people to death building a new capital city in jig time....we have the evidence of their bodies to prove it. Even then, no-one 'imposed' gods on them, or told them what to believe! Your average Egyptian in the street was never near a temple....they were not preached at, given doctrinal instructions or the rest. They might have had a few amulets of Bes, Taweret and the like, and a hope of Osiris, but that's your lot! Even in the police state of Akhenaten, the 'ordinary' people, seem to have stashed away their amulets of Amun, Thoth, Bes, Taweret, etc - in strict defiance of the King! So much for religious opression, then! Try reading serious literature on the subject: You might get your eyes opened to just how much GENUINE YHWH worship DID occur in Egypt.

[NicholasMarks]

Whoa! NM, you've been watching too many Hollywood movies. "Opressed"? About the only oppression we can detect in the population of Egypt was that imposed by Akhenaten when he worked his own people to death building a new capital city in jig time....we have the evidence of their bodies to prove it. Even then, no-one 'imposed' gods on them, or told them what to believe! Your average Egyptian in the street was never near a temple....they were not preached at, given doctrinal instructions or the rest. They might have had a few amulets of Bes, Taweret and the like, and a hope of Osiris, but that's your lot! Even in the police state of Akhenaten, the 'ordinary' people, seem to have stashed away their amulets of Amun, Thoth, Bes, Taweret, etc - in strict defiance of the King! So much for religious opression, then! Try reading serious literature on the subject: You might get your eyes opened to just how much GENUINE YHWH worship DID occur in Egypt.

When we know for a fact that the same tactics have been used over and over again throughout all generations we can be very certain that the Egyptians used them as well. Wasn't it Moses who was hidden in the bulrushes to escape the same type of Egyption tyranny, severe, oppressive tactics...still, the facts speak for themselves...What about the enforced slavery of the Jews, who were quick to leave when Pharoah's blessing was issued, under duress.

You see, history is often written at the behest of those who want to put a little colour into the brutal truth.
 

[Anchorman]

Facts? "We know for certain"? Really? Seriously, NM? You could have saved a heck of a lot of Egyptologists a lot of trouble if you'd told us that, then. No - we DON'T know for certain, NM. We know a bit about the various cults which evolved and merged over three and a half thousand years. We know how your average temple functioned, why it was there, and who were its' main officebearers...sometimes whole dynasties of them. But oppression? Sorry; we don't know much about that in the Egyptian context. John Romer has some excellent ideas on the subject, but he'll be the first to tell you that that's all they are; ideas - the evidence for oppression is scant; that of slavery in the Greco-Roman model - the slavery known in the Bible from t5he fifth centuries BC onward - non existant. Slaves as you might understand the term simply did not exist in Egypt before the sixth century BC - long after the time of Exodus. Slaves in Egypt were not bought and sold as per Potiphar! They were military captives, their wives and families who worked the land, married native Egyptians fo9r the most part, and, as DNA clearly shows, became integrated with the local population. There were no slave settlements in the Bible - and we have the remains of 'Ramses' - Pi-Ramessee - to prove it. As I pointed out earlier, the only signs of oppression on the population which are blatently obvious were inflicted by Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten in his haste to construct an entirely new city. That, NM, is called 'evidence'. Do you wish links to the excavations - some of which are ongoing?

[NicholasMarks]

Facts? "We know for certain"? Really? Seriously, NM? You could have saved a heck of a lot of Egyptologists a lot of trouble if you'd told us that, then. No - we DON'T know for certain, NM. We know a bit about the various cults which evolved and merged over three and a half thousand years. We know how your average temple functioned, why it was there, and who were its' main officebearers...sometimes whole dynasties of them. But oppression? Sorry; we don't know much about that in the Egyptian context. John Romer has some excellent ideas on the subject, but he'll be the first to tell you that that's all they are; ideas - the evidence for oppression is scant; that of slavery in the Greco-Roman model - the slavery known in the Bible from t5he fifth centuries BC onward - non existant. Slaves as you might understand the term simply did not exist in Egypt before the sixth century BC - long after the time of Exodus. Slaves in Egypt were not bought and sold as per Potiphar! They were military captives, their wives and families who worked the land, married native Egyptians fo9r the most part, and, as DNA clearly shows, became integrated with the local population. There were no slave settlements in the Bible - and we have the remains of 'Ramses' - Pi-Ramessee - to prove it. As I pointed out earlier, the only signs of oppression on the population which are blatently obvious were inflicted by Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten in his haste to construct an entirely new city. That, NM, is called 'evidence'. Do you wish links to the excavations - some of which are ongoing?

I acknowledge that your evidence is the hard-earned, intellectually based, scholarly stance...but I also know that a pharaoh, to protect his dynasty, will weave oppression into his networking...just as every tyrant does and there is much evidence of that. You see you don't order the slaying of all infants under the age of three, say, unless you have a vicious and brutal army to carry out your word, with no fear of repercussions. You see...the priests tell the people that this godly pharoah has that right, to appease the gods of whom he is brother or divine ruler of, and with all those who rally around that ruler showing him explicit obedience to, then the scene is set for a type of oppressive rulership built upon lies and deceit...something many bullies and tyrants follow today.

 

[BeRational]

I acknowledge that your evidence is the hard-earned, intellectually based, scholarly stance...but I also know that a pharaoh, to protect his dynasty, will weave oppression into his networking...just as every tyrant does and there is much evidence of that. You see you don't order the slaying of all infants under the age of three, say, unless you have a vicious and brutal army to carry out your word, with no fear of repercussions. You see...the priests tell the people that this godly pharoah has that right, to appease the gods of whom he is brother or divine ruler of, and with all those who rally around that ruler showing him explicit obedience to, then the scene is set for a type of oppressive rulership built upon lies and deceit...something many bullies and tyrants follow today.

 

Bonkers

[Maeght]

I acknowledge that your evidence is the hard-earned, intellectually based, scholarly stance...but I also know that a pharaoh, to protect his dynasty, will weave oppression into his networking...just as every tyrant does and there is much evidence of that. You see you don't order the slaying of all infants under the age of three, say, unless you have a vicious and brutal army to carry out your word, with no fear of repercussions. You see...the priests tell the people that this godly pharoah has that right, to appease the gods of whom he is brother or divine ruler of, and with all those who rally around that ruler showing him explicit obedience to, then the scene is set for a type of oppressive rulership built upon lies and deceit...something many bullies and tyrants follow today.

 

You don't know that.

[Anchorman]

I acknowledge that your evidence is the hard-earned, intellectually based, scholarly stance...but I also know that a pharaoh, to protect his dynasty, will weave oppression into his networking...just as every tyrant does and there is much evidence of that. You see you don't order the slaying of all infants under the age of three, say, unless you have a vicious and brutal army to carry out your word, with no fear of repercussions. You see...the priests tell the people that this godly pharoah has that right, to appease the gods of whom he is brother or divine ruler of, and with all those who rally around that ruler showing him explicit obedience to, then the scene is set for a type of oppressive rulership built upon lies and deceit...something many bullies and tyrants follow today.

 

You 'know a pharaoh'?.....and there you have it,.
The term 'Pharaoh' = "per-aa" - only came up under the female king Hatshepsut....AFTER the so-called incident with Joseph....before that, there was no such term - therefore the Pentateuch - or thiose who edited it - s simply historically wrong. The next time we see it is over SIX CENTURIES later...in the twenty-first dynasty, at the time of the relatively insignificant Siamun.
In other words, NM, the Egyptians themselves never used the term.
It only became part of royal titulary - and therefore known internationally - around two centuries later....the mid seventh century BC.
Therefore the Pentateuch could not, as it calaims, havew been written by Moses - and unaltered.
So much for 'accurate'; then.
And speaking of 'accurate'; can you provide any real, accurate information on oppression and slavery in Egypt by native Egyptians which stands up in archaeology?
Can you provide any evidence of a slave population in the Delta who buuilt two cities?
Any evidence whatsoever?

[NicholasMarks]

You 'know a pharaoh'?.....and there you have it,.
The term 'Pharaoh' = "per-aa" - only came up under the female king Hatshepsut....AFTER the so-called incident with Joseph....before that, there was no such term - therefore the Pentateuch - or thiose who edited it - s simply historically wrong. The next time we see it is over SIX CENTURIES later...in the twenty-first dynasty, at the time of the relatively insignificant Siamun.
In other words, NM, the Egyptians themselves never used the term.
It only became part of royal titulary - and therefore known internationally - around two centuries later....the mid seventh century BC.
Therefore the Pentateuch could not, as it calaims, havew been written by Moses - and unaltered.
So much for 'accurate'; then.
And speaking of 'accurate'; can you provide any real, accurate information on oppression and slavery in Egypt by native Egyptians which stands up in archaeology?
Can you provide any evidence of a slave population in the Delta who buuilt two cities?
Any evidence whatsoever?

In Jesus telling us how to lift ourselves out of oppression we can easily learn  the mechanics that oppression uses...and the Egyptians certainly used it. You don't get a rag-tag body of people to build pyramids...you do it by enforcement and the pharaohs, no matter what they called themselves, didn't do it through using good-will.

The trick is to get people to follow a lie...tell them they are duty bound to do what is required of them to appease the gods, and the engine behind it all is the priest-hood that pretends to speak the same language as the common people whilst having the ear of the hierarchy. A scam of the nastiest kind because the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is a style of oppression which is found in all groups of bullying, from the Egyptians to Hitler, and beyond...but here is a little note for your intellectual note-book...their is a direct analogy between the cancer-cell and this bullying style of government...and we, as yet, are clueless about either. It is all contained within the science...Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ.
   

[Anchorman]

In Jesus telling us how to lift ourselves out of oppression we can easily learn  the mechanics that oppression uses...and the Egyptians certainly used it. You don't get a rag-tag body of people to build pyramids...you do it by enforcement and the pharaohs, no matter what they called themselves, didn't do it through using good-will.

The trick is to get people to follow a lie...tell them they are duty bound to do what is required of them to appease the gods, and the engine behind it all is the priest-hood that pretends to speak the same language as the common people whilst having the ear of the hierarchy. A scam of the nastiest kind because the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is a style of oppression which is found in all groups of bullying, from the Egyptians to Hitler, and beyond...but here is a little note for your intellectual note-book...their is a direct analogy between the cancer-cell and this bullying style of government...and we, as yet, are clueless about either. It is all contained within the science...Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ.
   

For crying out loud, NM, where's your EVIDENCE?
Do you rteally want me to post links to the autopsy reports on the burials of the 'pyramid village' of Khufu?
Reports which show a higher standard of health care, better diet, longer lifrspan, richer grave goods, etc, than those NOT employed in construction?
Do you want me to post links to the earliest papyrus ever found (so far) which gives accounts of construction methods....written by one of the project workers?
Just saying "must have oppressed' is NOT - repeat NOT - evidence of oppression.  If you knew anything about the fourth dynasty of Egypt in context, and the archaeology of Giza, Saqqara, Abu Gurob, etc, you would realise how spurious your assertions are.
Assertions, NM, are NOT evidence.

[Maeght]

In Jesus telling us how to lift ourselves out of oppression we can easily learn  the mechanics that oppression uses...and the Egyptians certainly used it. You don't get a rag-tag body of people to build pyramids...you do it by enforcement and the pharaohs, no matter what they called themselves, didn't do it through using good-will.

The trick is to get people to follow a lie...tell them they are duty bound to do what is required of them to appease the gods, and the engine behind it all is the priest-hood that pretends to speak the same language as the common people whilst having the ear of the hierarchy. A scam of the nastiest kind because the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is a style of oppression which is found in all groups of bullying, from the Egyptians to Hitler, and beyond...but here is a little note for your intellectual note-book...their is a direct analogy between the cancer-cell and this bullying style of government...and we, as yet, are clueless about either. It is all contained within the science...Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ.
 

Or by a common cause.

[NicholasMarks]

For crying out loud, NM, where's your EVIDENCE?
Do you rteally want me to post links to the autopsy reports on the burials of the 'pyramid village' of Khufu?
Reports which show a higher standard of health care, better diet, longer lifrspan, richer grave goods, etc, than those NOT employed in construction?
Do you want me to post links to the earliest papyrus ever found (so far) which gives accounts of construction methods....written by one of the project workers?
Just saying "must have oppressed' is NOT - repeat NOT - evidence of oppression.  If you knew anything about the fourth dynasty of Egypt in context, and the archaeology of Giza, Saqqara, Abu Gurob, etc, you would realise how spurious your assertions are.
Assertions, NM, are NOT evidence.

Giving your last post the credit it is due I have done a little research on the points you make. Apparently pharaoh is just another word for king…in use since 1400BC…This king owned all the land in Egypt because his dynasty, is his, by virtue of his special relationship with his gods, and religion, according to the dictates of these gods, was sponsored by the priest-hood…just as I maintained. I see little difference between the other kingdoms of ancient times, where ritual, sacrifices, and signs, ruled the behaviour of the common people…all built upon lies. One man doesn’t own all the land of the people nor does he represent the gods. No…what happens is that the many priests and those who rake huge benefits out of this scam see themselves as the true kings and make the people honour and obey the puppet king, pretending that they too, must follow the king’s dictates, when, in reality, it is their own council that dictates the laws for their own greedy benefit. This is oppression.

Jesus Christ understood this oppression knowing that peoples lives were being snatched away from them via this trickery, but rather than leave a vacuum, he offered the more caring people a spiritual way of organisation, thus beating this oppression…A righteous way that still stands firm today.
 

[Anchorman]

Giving your last post the credit it is due I have done a little research on the points you make. Apparently pharaoh is just another word for king…in use since 1400BC…This king owned all the land in Egypt because his dynasty, is his, by virtue of his special relationship with his gods, and religion, according to the dictates of these gods, was sponsored by the priest-hood…just as I maintained. I see little difference between the other kingdoms of ancient times, where ritual, sacrifices, and signs, ruled the behaviour of the common people…all built upon lies. One man doesn’t own all the land of the people nor does he represent the gods. No…what happens is that the many priests and those who rake huge benefits out of this scam see themselves as the true kings and make the people honour and obey the puppet king, pretending that they too, must follow the king’s dictates, when, in reality, it is their own council that dictates the laws for their own greedy benefit. This is oppression.

Jesus Christ understood this oppression knowing that peoples lives were being snatched away from them via this trickery, but rather than leave a vacuum, he offered the more caring people a spiritual way of organisation, thus beating this oppression…A righteous way that still stands firm today.
 

Reasearch? What research?
Pharaoh is a corruption of 'pr-aa' which we transliterate as 'great house'. It originally applied to the royal court, not to a personage.
When Maatkare Hatshepsut came to power, scribes were faced with the problem that there wasn't any word for 'queen'...nor would there ever be. Hatsherpsut, a woman, took on all the titulary of a king  ('hmt nst'), but the masculine epithets didn't look good, so they used 'per-aa' to signify her. After her time, it would be nearly six centuries - long after the Exodus - before the Egyptians used 'per-aa' as part of royal titulary on a regular basis; the ephemeral twenty-first dynasty king Siamun, to be exact. 'Pharaoh' never, ever, meant 'king'.
Your research is flawed.
If something as simple as that stymies you, how on earth can you research the - non existant - oppression in Egypt or the convoluted plethora of religious systems?

[Rhiannon]

NickMarks has a laboratory. He mentioned it once.

[Anchorman]

NickMarks has a laboratory. He mentioned it once.

I wish he'd do some decent research in it.

Anyway, for NM, here's a likn to University College London....a good article on Egyptian kingship...I'd quibble a bit with the transliteration  - 'nswt' looks better as 'nst' to me - but that's nothing.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/ideology/king/what.html

[Anchorman]

To help you in your 'research', NM, here's a Wiki article on Siamun, a relatively weak Egyptian Tanite King who lived, coincidentally, at the same time as Solomon. Why am I posting it? Because if you read it, you'll note that he was the first ruler to adopt 'Per-aa' as part of his titulary...again, you'll note that this was long after the Exodus and Moses....who therefore cannot have written the Pentateuch as we have it today. http://www.che.ntu.edu.tw/ntuche/safety/upload/browse.php?u=Oi8vd2ViLmFyY2hpdmUub3JnL3dlYi8yMDExMTAyMDA2NDA1Mi9odHRwOi8vZW4ud2lraXBlZGlhLm9yZy93aWtpL1NpYW11bg%3D%3D&b=13

[Robbie]

You also forget, NM, that Egypt gave sanctuary to Jesus and His family along with a vast number of Jews who lived & worked there peaceably in community for quite a while.

[NicholasMarks]

Robbie/Anchorman/Rhiannon...

When you are talking kings you are talking bullies, oppressors, systems built out of survival of the nastiest. Every government uses the same tactics to some degree or other. So, listen and learn...

Jesus Christ taught us what oppression truly is. It is the deliberate and wilful dismantling of of our human inner strength, our nervous stamina...so that people can be herded rather than in a solid and healthy, individual way. Now, according to Jesus Christ this leads to the collapse of our spirit, the collapse of our health, and the collapse of our resistance against evil's campaign to dominate us...and all the problems in the world, today, stem from this type of oppression...and it's getting far worse.

My advice to you all is to accept that the universe is an electrical phenomena and we are electrical beings that, in the first instance, respond to electrical laws, and the finest of these laws are contained within the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ...regardless of what intellectuals tell you.