The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

I think you are applying your mind set to his and it doesn't work. He sees things his way and I don't think he sees the challenges as valid. I think you are projecting here.

But it's Sparky who expects others to take his claims seriously. If asking him why anyone should do that is "projecting" then so be it, but it seems a valid question nonetheless. What other option is there other than, "Oh OK then" - both to him and to anyone else who claims his personal opinions as facts for the rest of us? 

I take lying seriously, Vlad does it in misrepresenting others positions, I just don't see it in NM so don't make comments about it being charitable, as it implies that I am lying in my evaluation of NM for some reason if charity.

No it doesn't - it just implies that you take a less stringent approach than I do. He makes lots of assertions that are demonstrably wrong. He's corrected on them. He ignores the corrections repeats the mistakes. What else should we call that?

As to the other accusations, citation please.

I'll try to find some.

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

But it's Sparky who expects others to take his claims seriously. If asking him why anyone should do that is "projecting" then so be it, but it seems a valid question nonetheless. What other option is there other than, "Oh OK then" - both to him and to anyone else who claims his personal opinions as facts for the rest of us? 

No it doesn't - it just implies that you take a less stringent approach than I do. He makes lots of assertions that are demonstrably wrong. He's corrected on them. He ignores the corrections repeats the mistakes. What else should we call that?

I'll try to find some.

I think you have to have evidence of deliberate intent to make an accusation of lying. In that my standards are more stringent. You are implying that I have different standards in the subject of lying because i am applying charity to Nick and thereby lying about what I think he is doing.

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

I think you have to have evidence of deliberate intent to make an accusation of lying. In that my standards are more stringent. You are implying that I have different standards in the subject if lying because i am applying charity to Nick and thereby lying about what I think he is doing.

But if someone says "2+2=5", is corrected on it and and repeats the claim then there is intent - intent just to ignore the rebuttal and to carry on regardless.

As for terminology, not really. I just think that's you'd be more comfortable with "obdurate" or "obtuse" or some such, whereas I think there to be enough intent for "lying" to stick. It's a judgment call rather than different standards about the acceptability or otherwise of lying.   

[NicholasMarks]

All:

I realise that espousing the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is contentious. Jesus said that the things they say about you they also said about me. It seems that many of you are sitting in a smug world where you have fought down every attempt to bring honour and respect to the Holy Bible and are angered that the true word of Jesus Christ is, in reality, above reproach.

I, for my part am just a sinner like you lot but I have seen the light and have simply tried to bring current events alive from the Holy Bible. Revelation 21 is worth reading if anyone wants to avoid the lake of fire and brimstone which you condemn me for mentioning and by putting Nibiru, Wormwood or Nemisis into your YouTube search engine will reveal everything I know about this returning star system which could easily blot out the light of the moon and darken our sun exactly as Jesus says it will.

There is much much more but suffice it to say that if the one you call a liar turns out to be telling you the truth...who then becomes the liar??

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

I realise that espousing the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is contentious. Jesus said that the things they say about you they also said about me. It seems that many of you are sitting in a smug world where you have fought down every attempt to bring honour and respect to the Holy Bible and are angered that the true word of Jesus Christ is, in reality, above reproach.

I, for my part am just a sinner like you lot but I have seen the light and have simply tried to bring current events alive from the Holy Bible. Revelation 21 is worth reading if anyone wants to avoid the lake of fire and brimstone which you condemn me for mentioning and by putting Nibiru, Wormwood or Nemisis into your YouTube search engine will reveal everything I know about this returning star system which could easily blot out the light of the moon and darken our sun exactly as Jesus says it will.

There is much much more but suffice it to say that if the one you call a liar turns out to be telling you the truth...who then becomes the liar??

More "cheese and pickle sandwiches"? Really?

Ah well, personal opinions noted.

Now then - and yet again - WHY do you propose that anyone else should take these assertions seriously?

[NicholasMarks]

Sparky,

More "cheese and pickle sandwiches"? Really?

Ah well, personal opinions noted.

Now then - and yet again - WHY do you propose that anyone else should take these assertions seriously?

Not that you will find any satisfaction from my answer bluehillside...because it is in the Holy Bible...It is in science...and it is in the mechanics of human nature who, since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, measure in their many millions...the perfect scientific proof that his teaching is repeatable over and over again.

Now, you will quote to me yet again that many other people have followed many other teachings over the years as well to which I will reply that this is scientific proof that we all have a spiritual nature which must be satisfied and the only one that comes near to this comfort and satisfaction is the one  that unifies all the fundamental force in nature which is the one taught by Jesus Christ, to which you will reply, 'apples and jam' or something equally ridiculous.

[SweetPea]

Hello, Nicholas

Good to see you posting again! Well, Prof Cox tells us everything is energy and energy is everywhere. The question is: what is this energy and where does it come from?
 

[SweetPea]

Nicholas, that was not a catch question.... because I know what your answer will be.... and I'm with you on that. I was kind-of throwing it out-there for others to pick-up on.

[Sebastian Toe]

and by putting Nibiru, Wormwood or Nemisis into your YouTube search engine will reveal everything I know about this returning star system

Nichlueless;

....so why cant you give us an example of one of those which you think accurately confirms your understanding of the system?
Then we can all look at it and discuss if necessary.

Otherwise because there are so many conflicting stories about it out there , if I was to choose one and pick it apart , you, with your Teflon suit on, would worm your way out of it by saying that its not one of the examples which you agree with.

So lets cut through several dozen wasted exchanges in advance and you put up or shut up?
 

[NicholasMarks]

Hello, Nicholas

Good to see you posting again! Well, Prof Cox tells us everything is energy and energy is everywhere. The question is: what is this energy and where does it come from?

Hi Sweet Pea…Thank you for your very kind greeting and thank you for the opportunity to speak civilly on my Biblically discovered ‘dynamic energy’ of such vital importance. You see, science is looking at it all wrong. They have all the facts and the mechanics but they are putting it together all wrong.

It is all very complicated and I try to make it as simple as possible but even that isn’t simple enough…but it is all supported by Jesus’ accurate teaching so there is no need to understand what I say, we just need to follow Jesus Christ accurately.

[floo]

NM how do you know what Jesus is supposed to have said was accurately reported, let alone has any veracity?

[Sebastian Toe]

we just need to follow Jesus Christ accurately.

...how, exactly?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

Not that you will find any satisfaction from my answer bluehillside...because it is in the Holy Bible...

No it isn’t. You’re just taking vague statements from that book and then mapping them on to phenomena that have been discovered since. You could just as well claim that the Koran claiming Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse actually described the invention of the jumbo jet.

If you seriously think the Bible predicted modern science then you’d need to find its references to MRI scanners or to iPods.

It is in science...

No it isn’t. Science describes and explains physical phenomena, but your yoking of “righteous” this and “dynamic” that to its findings is just an attempt to add a faux authority to your conjectures.

…and it is in the mechanics of human nature who, since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, measure in their many millions...

No, the only relevant “mechanics of human nature” here is our propensity to seek patterns and explanations for the phenomena we observe – Thor and thunder for example, which why religions took root and some persisted.
 

…the perfect scientific proof that his teaching is repeatable over and over again.

Whatever else it may be, it certainly is not “scientific proof” at all. What falsifiablility tests for example would you propose for this “proof”?   

Now, you will quote to me yet again that many other people have followed many other teachings over the years as well to which I will reply that this is scientific proof that we all have a spiritual nature which must be satisfied…

Then you’d be wrong. Again. “Spiritual” is just a woo-woo term used to gussy up “strong feeling” as if in some unexplained way it has greater, celestial significance. What we actually have is a need for explanations, which is a different matter entirely. 

…and the only one that comes near to this comfort and satisfaction…

First, lots of people have found “comfort and satisfaction” in lots of deistic beliefs other than your own.

Second, finding comfort and satisfaction in a belief – any belief – says nothing whatever to whether the object of that belief is real. Essentially you’re arguing here for the Tooth Fairy.

.. is the one  that unifies all the fundamental force in nature which is the one taught by Jesus Christ,…

Only according to your child-like reasoning Sparky, only according to your child-like reasoning.

… to which you will reply, 'apples and jam' or something equally ridiculous.

No - to which I have actually replied with a series of rebuttals that you will now just ignore. The “cheese and pickle sandwiches” line was an allusion to your propensity for telling us what you think but not why you think it, let alone why you think anyone else should take your fantasies seriously. 

[NicholasMarks]

...how, exactly?

 

Like this Seb...ignore all the extras added by iniquity and false teachers and read exactly what Jesus says. Any Holy Bible will do as long as it is easy and honest to read. You would find then that a righteous way of thinking is lifting you out of mans brain-washing which is, in turn, lifting your spirit, lifting your health and lifting your mental agility out of the quagmire of false reasoning.

You could then get down to the nitty gritty behind the science that is now working within you...it is a righteous science owned and delivered to you courtesy of Jesus Christ and his father, Almighty God.

 

[NicholasMarks]

NM how do you know what Jesus is supposed to have said was accurately reported, let alone has any veracity?

There is a theme that runs throughout the Holy Bible...God is a spirit...his superabundant 'dynamic energy' built all the stars...he is the owner of all science and all accurate knowledge...he sent his son to bring his teaching into sharp focus.

So what Jesus has to tell us is very important indeed. It is best to read it yourself and realise that there is a science involved in his teaching. That science revolves around us upbuilding a righteous spirit which can, besides offer us resurrection, can interact with our energy starved genetics and give them a new lease of life...oops...I'm moving too fast.

 

[BeRational]

There is a theme that runs throughout the Holy Bible...God is a spirit...his superabundant 'dynamic energy' built all the stars...he is the owner of all science and all accurate knowledge...he sent his son to bring his teaching into sharp focus.

So what Jesus has to tell us is very important indeed. It is best to read it yourself and realise that there is a science involved in his teaching. That science revolves around us upbuilding a righteous spirit which can, besides offer us resurrection, can interact with our energy starved genetics and give them a new lease of life...oops...I'm moving o fast.

 

WHY do you believe what is written in the bible?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

That science revolves around us upbuilding a righteous spirit which can, besides offer us resurrection, can interact with our energy starved genetics and give them a new lease of life...

Science has nothing to do with "upbuilding righteous spirit". Science investigates and explains material phenomena. "Upbuilding righteous spirit" is vapid woo-woo that's about as far removed from the tools and methods of science as it's possible to be.   

...oops...I'm moving too fast.

Yes you are. Backwards.

[NicholasMarks]

WHY do you believe what is written in the bible?

Well...first you just believe because the world is in such a mess and you can see many reasons how that mess could have been avoided...then you realise that not only is no one trying to avoid this mess but are actively working to create that mess. Then, as a way out, you realise that mans only hope is a supreme authority who actually cares.

There is great comfort on all these issues in the Holy Bible.

The more you come to understand the more you realise that the Holy Bible is referring to things that are only just coming into scientific focus starting with the nature of the universe all the way to our emotional health and by this time you are sold on the idea that Almighty God and his much loved son Jesus Christ have everything in hand...it is just a question of waiting for God's Judgement.

Saving those who are just out of salvation range at the moment is just a worthwhile chore while we wait.

Now I know BeRational you will work out a long text opposing everything I say...but I am unmovable on this issue.

 

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

Well...first you just believe because the world is in such a mess and you can see many reasons why that mess could have been avoided...then you realise that not only is no one trying to avoid this mess but are actively working to create that mess. Then, as a way out, you realise that mans only hope is a supreme authority who actually cares.

First, you've already been told that the world is in much less of a "mess" in terms of all the indicators of human wellbeing, and that those trends are continuing. I even gave you some references so you could find that out for yourself. Hans Rosling does a fun exercise where he compares the results of asking students questions (re literacy, life expectancy, incidence of disease etc) and comparing it with the results from asking the chimps at the zoo. The students performed worse than the chimps, and so would you.

Second, not only are lots of people working to improve things but they're actually succeeding. Think of the elimination of smallpox and the near elimination of polio for example - millions have benefited from these achievements.

Second, even if you weren't flat wrong about this that would still say nothing to whether the Bible is accurate.   

There is great comfort on all these issues in the Holy Bible.

Some bits of the Bible, and for you perhaps. Finding "comfort" in a a text though says nothing at all about whether or not its factual claims are true.

The more you come to understand the more you realise that the Holy Bible is referring to things that is only just coming into scientific focus starting with the nature of the universe all the way to our emotional health and by this time you are sold on the idea that Almighty God and his much loved son Jesus Christ have everything in hand...it is just a question of waiting for God's Judgement.

No the Bible doesn't do that at all. You're just retro-fitting your (mis-)understanding of what science says to vague statements in a book you choose to think is "holy".

Saving those who are just out of salvation range at the moment is just a worthwhile chore while we wait.

"Saving those who are just out of salvation" is just a superstitious belief you happen to hold. There's not one shred of evidence or cogent argument to support it.

Now I know BeRational you will work out a long text opposing everything I say...but I am unmovable on this issue.

Regardless of any evidence at all that would falsify your beliefs?

What does that say about you do you think? 

[BeRational]

Well...first you just believe because the world is in such a mess and you can see many reasons how that mess could have been avoided...then you realise that not only is no one trying to avoid this mess but are actively working to create that mess. Then, as a way out, you realise that mans only hope is a supreme authority who actually cares.

There is great comfort on all these issues in the Holy Bible.

The more you come to understand the more you realise that the Holy Bible is referring to things that are only just coming into scientific focus starting with the nature of the universe all the way to our emotional health and by this time you are sold on the idea that Almighty God and his much loved son Jesus Christ have everything in hand...it is just a question of waiting for God's Judgement.

Saving those who are just out of salvation range at the moment is just a worthwhile chore while we wait.

Now I know BeRational you will work out a long text opposing everything I say...but I am unmovable on this issue.

I know you are, and that is why discussion is pointless.
You do not engage, your mind is closed.

[bluehillside Retd.]

BR,

I know you are, and that is why discussion is pointless.
You do not engage, your mind is closed.

And padlocked with the key thrown away.

[Sebastian Toe]

You could just as well claim that the Koran claiming Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse actually described the invention of the jumbo jet.
 

That would be wrong.
It must have described the invention of the P-51 Mustang though? 

[Sebastian Toe]

 

Like this Seb...ignore all the extras added by iniquity and false teachers and read exactly what Jesus says.

Done that.

  . You would find then that a righteous way of thinking is lifting you out of mans brain-washing which is, in turn, lifting your spirit, lifting your health and lifting your mental agility out of the quagmire of false reasoning.

Nope, nothing like that!
I do however get that your reasoning is false though.
Now what?

[Sebastian Toe]

by putting Nibiru, Wormwood or Nemisis into your YouTube search engine will reveal everything I know about this returning star system which could easily blot out the light of the moon and darken our sun exactly as Jesus says it will.

Nichlueless;

....so why cant you give us an example of one of those which you think accurately confirms your understanding of the system?
........ put up or shut up?
 

[NicholasMarks]

All:

Vicious circle arguments, every one of them. You accuse me of closed mindedness whilst you all seem to be a in pact with each other...blast, offend, drag into annihilation any mention of the wonderful teaching of  Jesus Christ.  People need to be aware that when approaching such a bullying group of people that logic and reasoning is the last thing on your mind.

Jesus Christ lived died and was resurrected so we have a wonderful science to explore...it is all down to the righteousness of his spirit...born from the same material stars and atoms are made from. Via this spirit he sunk to the depths of the ether that has charge over each and everyone of us when we die...but he snatched the keys out of your bosses hand and showed those with a more righteous attitude that resurrection and everlasting life is available to us if we follow him accurately...It appears that most of you are Wormwood fodder...but at least I tried.