The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ

[jjohnjil]

Moving on...We now have a universe that must have existed before the big-bang. Everything was quiet and still...a very tranquil place where time stood still and no mass existed. But...to make science work something must have existed in that place. A material that has always been and always will be...an indestructible, invisible, superabundant material, that both science and Almighty God allude to in their dark matter/dynamic energy teachings...and to make science fit the facts we must state that this material just drifted around the great void of space building up into huge dense clouds of light-year proportions. Everywhere there is now a galaxy there was once a huge, dense cloud of dynamic energy that preceded it...just waiting for the trigger that science calls the big-bang...but I call God's righteous word because by that word all knowledge about the universe becomes scientifically understandable.

In the beginning was the word and that word is the light of the world.

What makes you think all was tranquil and quiet, Nick?  We have only a calculation, based on the speed the galaxies are moving away from each other, that they began moving approx 14 billion years ago.  The Big Bang is a point in time, not a physical happening that we know anything about.   We certainly cannot assume anything about the state everything was in before that.

We do though, see that Black Holes exist and that stars in every galaxy are being drawn into them.  Presumably, inside each black hole, there is a gigantic star that is being squeezed tighter and tighter by the incoming stars.  Our universe may have been caused by something much bigger than a black hole that suddenly exploded.

It may, of course, have been an entirely different scenario altogether, but there is no reason to suppose that some human-like magician waved his hands and created it all.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

WHY do you believe that only things that can be argued and evidenced can be true, bhs?  After all, there are a number of things within our everyday lives that don't fit this simplistic approach very easily?

(emphasis mine)

Hope,

I don't. What I do think though is that, absent argument and evidence (and absent any other method of validation on the table) you have no means to know whether something is true. 

Your god. my leprechauns, any other conjecture we can dream up might be true but you need a connecting logic to take from "true for me only" subjective truth to "true for you too" objective truth.

And that's your problem here.

This doesn't answer Hope's question (the bit I emphasized in bold). What about the number of things within our everyday lives that don't fit this simplistic approach very easily?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sword,

This doesn't answer Hope's question (the bit I emphasized in bold). What about the number of things within our everyday lives that don't fit this simplistic approach very easily?

Partly because that bit came after his question (which I did answer), partly because I've no idea what he thinks these "things" might be, and partly because "this simplistic approach" is the fallacy of begging the question - what "approach" would he/you propose instead?

[Gordon]

(emphasis mine)This doesn't answer Hope's question (the bit I emphasized in bold). What about the number of things within our everyday lives that don't fit this simplistic approach very easily?

What things?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Gordon,

What things?

No idea. Perhaps BA could tell us?

[Khatru]

Moving on...We now have a universe that must have existed before the big-bang. Everything was quiet and still...a very tranquil place where time stood still and no mass existed. But...to make science work something must have existed in that place. A material that has always been and always will be...an indestructible, invisible, superabundant material, that both science and Almighty God allude to in their dark matter/dynamic energy teachings...and to make science fit the facts we must state that this material just drifted around the great void of space building up into huge dense clouds of light-year proportions. Everywhere there is now a galaxy there was once a huge, dense cloud of dynamic energy that preceded it...just waiting for the trigger that science calls the big-bang...but I call God's righteous word because by that word all knowledge about the universe becomes scientifically understandable.

In the beginning was the word and that word is the light of the world.

I'm glad I can look back through my old posts.

To me, "God" or indeed, gods are religious concepts used to try and explain or account for imagined qualities and substances that cannot be identified in our world any more than leprechauns.

I see it as a category where the whole idea of the supernatural belongs. 

Contrast that with the natural, which I see as covering everything that exists, including what we have yet to discover.

The term "supernatural" gives people a green light to not only make up whatever beings they want but also to endow these beings with self-contradictory and magical abilities.  I see it all the time with believers when they refer to their particular choice of deity as being uncreated and somehow living outside of and unaffected by the passage of time.  Yet their god still thinks and acts inside and outside of our natural realm. 

It's funny but it's often the case that once believers have given their construct a free pass by placing it in the envisioned supernatural realm, they then become quite rigorous about what must be true in the natural world - the only world we know.

From a point of reason, the whole thing comes over to me as a logical nightmare, excused by the one word - "supernatural".  It's a fallacy of special pleading whereby whatever the believer places in this supernatural realm gets excused from the scepticism and scrutiny.

[BashfulAnthony]

Gordon,

No idea. Perhaps BA could tell us?

Not really.  I'm not in the mood for fun threads at the moment.

[Sebastian Toe]

(emphasis mine)This doesn't answer Hope's question (the bit I emphasized in bold). What about the number of things within our everyday lives that don't fit this simplistic approach very easily?

Maybe you could give several examples of those things?

[NicholasMarks]

When the author of Revelations said that Jesus was coming "soon" he really meant "soon".  Not, more than two thousand years later.

REV 22:20

Futhermore, no less a person than Paul foretold that the end would come in his lifetime and that he'd be one of those who fly up to heaven.

1 Thess. 4:15-17

Check out the first words of Jesus in the oldest surviving gospel.  "Very near" is not over two thousand years.

Mark 1:15

Luke tells us that "Even now the axe is lying at the root of the trees".  What he failed to mention is that two thousand years later it will still be lying there because his god has failed to pick it up. Of course, Luke wasn't thinking that his god would take that long.

Luke 3: 7-9

The simple answer...if there can be a simple answer Khatru...is...that every ones life time is a quest towards learning about God's and Jesus' teaching. Few live after there 80s and this is plenty of time to, quickly reach God's Judgement. If we upbuild a righteous spirit in that time then in death we open up a  portal that will deliver us to the next generation. in a new vessel. So God's Judgement is administered very quickly indeed. Obviously if you don't have a strong, robust spirit due to unrighteousness then you cannot take advantage of this promise and must remain entrapped in the ether until God deems it time in the last days to restore all who have ever lived back to the flesh...and because of the horrible attitude of this generation...the lack of morals, the anger, the wars, the abuse and the distress, I suspect that that time is now.This means that it is our response to righteousness in this generation that will carry us through God's Final Judgement and, we are told, Wormwood is a nasty part of that final judgement.

[floo]

The simple answer...if there can be a simple answer Khatru...is...that every ones life time is a quest towards learning about God's and Jesus' teaching. Few live after there 80s and this is plenty of time to, quickly reach God's Judgement. If we upbuild a righteous spirit in that time then in death we open up a  portal that will deliver us to the next generation. in a new vessel. So God's Judgement is administered very quickly indeed. Obviously if you don't have a strong, robust spirit due to unrighteousness then you cannot take advantage of this promise and must remain entrapped in the ether until God deems it time in the last days to restore all who have ever lived back to the flesh...and because of the horrible attitude of this generation...the lack of morals, the anger, the wars, the abuse and the distress, I suspect that that time is now.This means that it is our response to righteousness in this generation that will carry us through God's Final Judgement and, we are told, Wormwood is a nasty part of that final judgement.

Complete and utter GOBBLEDEGOOK!

[NicholasMarks]

What makes you think all was tranquil and quiet, Nick?  We have only a calculation, based on the speed the galaxies are moving away from each other, that they began moving approx 14 billion years ago.  The Big Bang is a point in time, not a physical happening that we know anything about.   We certainly cannot assume anything about the state everything was in before that.

We do though, see that Black Holes exist and that stars in every galaxy are being drawn into them.  Presumably, inside each black hole, there is a gigantic star that is being squeezed tighter and tighter by the incoming stars.  Our universe may have been caused by something much bigger than a black hole that suddenly exploded.

It may, of course, have been an entirely different scenario altogether, but there is no reason to suppose that some human-like magician waved his hands and created it all.

My own, Biblical understanding jjohnjil is that at least two of these gigantic clouds of dynamic energy merged together and because they were much denser at their centres they created the first law in science...those cores were forced to find the central position of these merging electrical clouds. The first universal Hadron collider came into existence as these cores hurtled towards each other and smashed headlong, one into the other...Now science can really begin because a number of behaviour patterns would simultaneously take place...Powerful shock waves spreading out from that collision point in space would send all other surrounding clouds hurtling outwards as science says they do now, and each one would be spinning up into a violent hurricane force with many tornadoes forming within them.

Science, as we now know it, is just one step away...but Almighty God got there first.

[floo]

NM your 'understanding' is all your own and doesn't have anything to back it up.

[NicholasMarks]

Complete and utter GOBBLEDEGOOK!

It's all in the Gospels Floo...but you should know that because you have already read it. It is this indestructible electric/spiritual nature of Jesus Christ's teaching that delivers it...the same stuff that created the universe and which Almighty God has all authority over.

[jjohnjil]

My own, Biblical understanding jjohnjil is that at least two of these gigantic clouds of dynamic energy merged together and because they were much denser at their centres they created the first law in science...those cores were forced to find the central position of these merging electrical clouds. The first universal Hadron collider came into existence as these cores hurtled towards each other and smashed headlong, one into the other...Now science can really begin because a number of behaviour patterns would simultaneously take place...Powerful shock waves spreading out from that collision point in space would send all other surrounding clouds hurtling outwards as science says they do now, and each one would be spinning up into a violent hurricane force with many tornadoes forming within them.

Science, as we now know it, is just one step away...but Almighty God got there first.

Nick

I'm always willing to learn, so could you point me to where in the Bible exactly you read of these two gigantic clouds?

[floo]

It's all in the Gospels Floo...but you should know that because you have already read it. It is this indestructible electric/spiritual nature of Jesus Christ's teaching that delivers it...the same stuff that created the universe and which Almighty God has all authority over.

Even if it was in the gospels they are definitely not evidence, especially as they were written so many years after Jesus died.

[NicholasMarks]

Nick

I'm always willing to learn, so could you point me to where in the Bible exactly you read of these two gigantic clouds?

No I can't...it is simply making sense of modern science and Biblical teaching...remember, I believe implicitly in both having realised that Almighty God and now Jesus Christ have absolute and total authority over it all.

What the Bible does say is...look into the heavens, who put them there, with the superabundance of his dynamic energy,(mighty power) they are each numbered and named, not one is missing. So...even 4000 years ago all the stars in the heavens were identified and catalogued by this universal authority. I am just going through the only logic that could scientifically explain what is already known to exist...with the acknowledgement that this science with all its key points has already been brought to our attention from within the Holy Bible.

So...you don't agree,but, like Nibiru, you will probably see it with your own eyes...soon.

 

[NicholasMarks]

Even if it was in the gospels they are definitely not evidence, especially as they were written so many years after Jesus died.

If the teaching of Jesus Christ makes good sense to millions today and over the generations since his resurrection then we can suggest that his message, he taught, is still embodied within the text of the Holy Bible  today...as long as it is Jesus we are listening to and not the outrageous iniquity that is being taught whilst standing in a pool of Jesus' blood.

 

[bluehillside Retd.]

BA,

Not really.  I'm not in the mood for fun threads at the moment.

My apologies Bashers - a case of mistaken identity on my part. I should if course have said, "maybe Hope can tell us".

Sorry.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

...it is simply making sense of modern science and Biblical teaching...remember, I believe implicitly in both having realised that Almighty God and now Jesus Christ have absolute and total authority over it all.

You can't "make sense of modern science" when you have not an inkling of what science (modern or otherwise) actually says, and what you "believe implicitly" has no rhetorical value whatever. It just tells us what you happen believe implicitly. So what?

If you seriously want people to think that what you believe isn't entirely ludicrous, then - finally - you need to make a cogent argument to support it.

As I've told you already what the word "argument" actually means, what's stopping you?

[jjohnjil]

No I can't...it is simply making sense of modern science and Biblical teaching...remember, I believe implicitly in both having realised that Almighty God and now Jesus Christ have absolute and total authority over it all.

What the Bible does say is...look into the heavens, who put them there, with the superabundance of his dynamic energy,(mighty power) they are each numbered and named, not one is missing. So...even 4000 years ago all the stars in the heavens were identified and catalogued by this universal authority. I am just going through the only logic that could scientifically explain what is already known to exist...with the acknowledgement that this science with all its key points has already been brought to our attention from within the Holy Bible.

So...you don't agree,but, like Nibiru, you will probably see it with your own eyes...soon.

+

Thanks for that, Nick, I wondered why no one else had mentioned it being Biblical teaching.

So, as you understand it, God hurled these gigantic clouds together to cause the Big bang, simply so that, 13.5 billion years later, Man would appear and he could have a relationship with them, listen to their prayers and help them etc.

I get it now.

[NicholasMarks]

+

Thanks for that, Nick, I wondered why no one else had mentioned it being Biblical teaching.

So, as you understand it, God hurled these gigantic clouds together to cause the Big bang, simply so that, 13.5 billion years later, Man would appear and he could have a relationship with them, listen to their prayers and help them etc.

I get it now.

It helps if you read what is written and perhaps take in a little Biblical knowledge too...jjohnjil.

It is a very complex subject and I am setting the scene for even greaater complexities but your mind is closed. The science goes into this too showing that closed minds are not the alert caring, healthy minds that righteousness guides us towards and which, therefore, result in many health problems...totally missed by the health profession...but i suppose it is only really important for those who have put their lot in with Jesus and hope to pass God's final judgement.

 

[NicholasMarks]

Sparky,

You can't "make sense of modern science" when you have not an inkling of what science (modern or otherwise) actually says, and what you "believe implicitly" has no rhetorical value whatever. It just tells us what you happen believe implicitly. So what?

If you seriously want people to think that what you believe isn't entirely ludicrous, then - finally - you need to make a cogent argument to support it.

As I've told you already what the word "argument" actually means, what's stopping you?

Here is a statement that is also a part of my philosophy and might also ring true with you, bluehillside

Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled. (Richard Feynman)

[floo]

If the teaching of Jesus Christ makes good sense to millions today and over the generations since his resurrection then we can suggest that his message, he taught, is still embodied within the text of the Holy Bible  today...as long as it is Jesus we are listening to and not the outrageous iniquity that is being taught whilst standing in a pool of Jesus' blood.

Some of what Jesus is quoted as saying and doing was sensible, some of it wasn't!

[floo]

Here is a statement that is also a part of my philosophy and might also ring true with you, bluehillside

Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled. (Richard Feynman)

Now that is really funny, reality and NM is an oxymoron where matters of faith are concerned.

[Brownie]

A person cannot be an oxymoron, floo.  What they say may be oxymoronic.