The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ

[Sebastian Toe]

No one knows the hour or the day Seb...but you already knew that...didn't you??

If you checked out that YouTube clip you might get a clearer idea...but I suspect you won't bother. As for trying to scare anybody, torri...there are many already very scared...and many of these don't believe in the Holy Bible either...they are talking about preparations like bunkers, water storage, food and rations horded for the event...but I am simply saying upbuild a righteous spirit according to the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ so that the only salvation possible is achieved and I've even showed how it all works...if you make yourself an indestructible electric being you can interact with all adversity thrown at you and come good...failure isn't a pleasant option.

I could checkout the YouTube clip Nick, however as you are the one on here telling us all your accurate details and you are the one who claims to have done all of the accurate studying.
Why don't we just cut all of the crap and you tell us what we are going to see, pretty soon?
Straight from the horses mouth and all that.

[NicholasMarks]

I could checkout the YouTube clip Nick, however as you are the one on here telling us all your accurate details and you are the one who claims to have done all of the accurate studying.
Why don't we just cut all of the crap and you tell us what we are going to see, pretty soon?
Straight from the horses mouth and all that.

If I have all the accurate knowledge Seb and I say do your own research then maybe I have a valid reason to say that.. You can't expwct ro know what's in the Holy Bible unless you look yourself. That way you get a feel for its honesty and sincerety. This is essential when we come to study Revelation and compare it with what's going on in the world today. Then, even you Seb will be looking out for signs in the skies. Huge signs with the hall- marks of great dextruction...then you might want to warn others as a way of saving them and there families. The accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is the only salvation plan of any value mainly because it has all the scientific answers.

[torridon]

You need to read Revelation ippy. There Jesus tells everyone exactly what will happen to them in no uncertain terms.

Jesus didn't write Revelation Nick.  Surprised at you for being so, errm, inaccurate.

[NicholasMarks]

Jesus didn't write Revelation Nick.  Surprised at you for being so, errm, inaccurate.

You need to read it yourself torri. Who said write these words down and seal them until the appointed time...and he ate the scroll and in his mouth it wzs sweet but in the belly it was very bitter??

[Sassy]

What, you mean you really can't see the irony in a lunar-landings denier complaining about people not taking eye witness testimony seriously    OMG

So easy for you to forget the advancement of science and the fact the real 'irony' is that SCIENTIST are the ones who claim they never went to the moon or landed on it. In this day and age killing off the scientist as they did the astronauts back then would make no difference because new witnesses would come along the type of witness who may have seen the moon walk but know scientifically how impossible in those days it really was.

It is basically about the witnesses... In Christ time there were witnesses but no witnesses against because after he rose there was no body in a grave or anywhere to disprove it. It even had Roman Soldiers guarding the tomb.
The witnesses say Jesus Christ rose from the dead and was seen. But no witnesses to disprove him rising from the dead;  the Roman Soldiers and Governors, even the high priest would surely have sought such evidence but found none.

You cannot disprove the truth about the witnesses who saw Christ and witnessed what he did.
But scientist are the people who make the claim the moon landing and walking on the moon was impossible to do safely in the  60's.  So if you believe that NASA is telling the truth how do you explain the deaths of those who could witness it or the scientist who tell us that is was impossible in the  safety aspect?

Jesus Christ, his life and his rising from the dead is not in question it was witnessed in every part. But no one was eyewitness to the actual events of traveling through space and landing/walking on the moon. The scientist today say it is impossible.

So nothing hypocritcal. Both lot's of evidence are different and so both accounts not comparable.

[Sassy]

Yes.

It isn't in the least hypocritical: claims vary and need to be assessed on the details involved, especially so anecdotal claims.

My post before this one answers the above. Different evidence and different claims not compatible.

Nothing hypocritical.

Two different eye-witnessed accounts.

One: human eyewitness. No witness or evidence to the contrary concerning Christ.

There is no evidence in history or since the time of Christ to prove contrary to the witness testimonies.

Two: no human eyewitness but scientist who through advances in science claim it to be a scam.

[NicholasMarks]

Sassy of course is right...

But even science now says it is possible...if everything is energy and energy cannot be destroyed, only converted to a new energy...then our bodies are composites of this energy transformed, so that if that energy, in life, can be harnessed into becoming a pure electrical being within us then by very advanced laws it can be resurrected. Jesus said that this is the nature of Almighty God...of all the angels in Heaven...of he himself...and of us too if we can get out of the nasty habit of wasting this energy by way of our sins.

 

[torridon]

So easy for you to forget the advancement of science and the fact the real 'irony' is that SCIENTIST are the ones who claim they never went to the moon or landed on it. In this day and age killing off the scientist as they did the astronauts back then would make no difference because new witnesses would come along the type of witness who may have seen the moon walk but know scientifically how impossible in those days it really was.

It is basically about the witnesses... In Christ time there were witnesses but no witnesses against because after he rose there was no body in a grave or anywhere to disprove it. It even had Roman Soldiers guarding the tomb.
The witnesses say Jesus Christ rose from the dead and was seen. But no witnesses to disprove him rising from the dead;  the Roman Soldiers and Governors, even the high priest would surely have sought such evidence but found none.

You cannot disprove the truth about the witnesses who saw Christ and witnessed what he did.
But scientist are the people who make the claim the moon landing and walking on the moon was impossible to do safely in the  60's.  So if you believe that NASA is telling the truth how do you explain the deaths of those who could witness it or the scientist who tell us that is was impossible in the  safety aspect?

Jesus Christ, his life and his rising from the dead is not in question it was witnessed in every part. But no one was eyewitness to the actual events of traveling through space and landing/walking on the moon. The scientist today say it is impossible.

So nothing hypocritcal. Both lot's of evidence are different and so both accounts not comparable.

Oh dear,  really Sass, you can't be serious.  On the one hand you have a challenging science program involving thousands of people with mountains of tangible evidence and witnesses still alive to testify and that apparently is not sufficient for you.  And on the other you have a handful of anecdotal claims from the Iron Age of something totally impossible with no way to verify, yet that scenario is well-evidenced by comparison  ?  If some nutjob puts up a Youtube video claiming Elvis is still alive because he saw him working in a chip shop in Bognor Regis are you going to believe that too ?  I despair, you do no credibility for your faith by such abandonment of critical reasoning and sound judgement.

[torridon]

You need to read it yourself torri. Who said write these words down and seal them until the appointed time...and he ate the scroll and in his mouth it wzs sweet but in the belly it was very bitter??

Well it probably wasn't Jesus. Maybe he had voices in his head 

[NicholasMarks]

Well it probably wasn't Jesus. Maybe he had voices in his head 

The beauty of reading the Holy Bible is that you get a feel for it's honesty and sincerety...and this includes the fact that Jesus Christ and Almighty God are the sole authors of their written word. Admittedly they used personal assistants to write it all down but like tracing the work of an artist or poet, they have their own signature written in the detail.

[Sassy]

Oh dear,  really Sass, you can't be serious.  On the one hand you have a challenging science program involving thousands of people with mountains of tangible evidence and witnesses still alive to testify and that apparently is not sufficient for you.

  THERE ARE NO WITNESSES NO ONE WAS IN SPACE OR ON THE MOON WHEN THEY allegedly WENT AND WALKED ON IT.
What is it, you cannot understand about that. The scientist challenged the program and it was found wanting.
You require faith, because you cannot logically, reasonably or educationally challenge the scientist today about their findings from the 60's based on the study of the actual props used for the moon flight and walk.
The scientist say they did not have the right clothing or the right rocket to do as they did without them killing themselves.

And on the other you have a handful of anecdotal claims from the Iron Age of something totally impossible with no way to verify, yet that scenario is well-evidenced by comparison  ?

Wrong: There is a difference between something even you can choose to know is true and choosing not, and just dismissing it off the cuff as you did and then writing the last sentence/paragraph as you did above this.

Anecdotal claims:- Do as the bible tells you and you will know if it is really anecdotal.
You see God never left and neither has Jesus. Both are still alive and had you studied the bible and really cared about knowing the truth you would not be writing this post.

If some nutjob puts up a Youtube video claiming Elvis is still alive because he saw him working in a chip shop in Bognor Regis are you going to believe that too ?  I despair, you do no credibility for your faith by such abandonment of critical reasoning and sound judgement.

Test it!  Go to the chip shop in Bognor Regis and see if he is alive and working there. See that is the difference we seek only truth and we know how to find it... No wonder you despair if you rely on silly answers like the last paragraph above.


If, anyones judgment and reasoning is faulty you only have to look at your last sentences/paragraph to see immediately that it is, your own. You see those statements do not take away from Gods words or his power in the world today. Even if, only Christ's miracles had taken place, they would still be enough evidence to prove you wrong.

What as it written in John 21:25.

King James Version
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Christ, and his followers prove everyday that Gods word is alive and well that two edge sword that cuts through everything.
Gods word is still here, never forgotten and still doing what it promises to do by his power and presence.
What power has your words? None! How long will it be forgotten? Forever! What good will it do? NOTHING.

Do you not see the negativity in your own words which comes from your own soul. No hope, trying to attack and tear down anything that does give hope.  I think we can both agree. Better to have hope and build good things than have no hope and attack those things and people who do have hope.

[torridon]

Sassy of course is right...

But even science now says it is possible...if everything is energy and energy cannot be destroyed, only converted to a new energy...then our bodies are composites of this energy transformed, so that if that energy, in life, can be harnessed into becoming a pure electrical being within us then by very advanced laws it can be resurrected. Jesus said that this is the nature of Almighty God...of all the angels in Heaven...of he himself...and of us too if we can get out of the nasty habit of wasting this energy by way of our sins.

I don't think Jesus is claimed to have said anything about God being electrical.  But you might be partly right, in a sense, about resurrection, in that it might be possible in the future to do things like teleportation or uploading your 'self' to non-organic media such as a cloud server.  We are essentially information patterns and patterns can be coded onto any substrate, there is nothing magical about carbon compounds in their ability to host information.  But it won't be easy, and you have to remember that, what constitutes 'me' is valid for the current moment in time only.

[torridon]

  THERE ARE NO WITNESSES NO ONE WAS IN SPACE OR ON THE MOON WHEN THEY allegedly WENT AND WALKED ON IT.

Of course there were witnesses; the astronauts themselves were witnesses, not to mention the thousands of people involved in the program, not to mention the millions that witnessed it on TV.  There is nothing of this magnitude, depth and range of evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.  There is nothing whatsoever in the historical record, all we have is one or two wild claims made by, you guessed it, his followers, some decades after the alleged event.  It really is a total no-brainer this Sass.

[Sebastian Toe]

Two: no human eyewitness but scientist who through advances in science claim it to be a scam.

Actually there were human eyewitnesses.
Those men who actually walked on the moon.
Some of them devout Christians.
You cannot prove that they are wrong.
Are you calling them liars.

Sassy

Sassy?

[NicholasMarks]

Actually there were human eyewitnesses.
Those men who actually walked on the moon.
Some of them devout Christians.
You cannot prove that they are wrong.
Are you calling them liars.

Sassy

Sassy?

I think the jury is still out on this one Seb...but what I understood from Sassy is that there are claims and counter claims from expert witnesses but in the case of Jesus...though there are many solid, witnesses, telling us about the resurrection, there are none who contradict these eye-witness accounts. Mainly because the events were so amazing that even the Jews who were responsible for his death, were dumb-struck.

But just as you will here Seb you will have a counter argument...until you are struck dumb by the approach of a well talked about Biblical principle that there will be terrific global force applied upon this planet and it will be called, by the survivors of this event...God's Judgment.

[Sebastian Toe]

I think the jury is still out on this one Seb...but what I understood from Sassy is that there are claims and counter claims from expert witnesses

No Nick I'm not talking about 'expert' witnesses, I'm talking about actual witnesses.
You know the ones who actually were there, some who are still alive to recount the events should anyone care to ask.
Those witnesses.
Some of them Christians who used their witness to further the cause of Christianity.

Are they liars Nick?

Nick?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I don't think Jesus is claimed to have said anything about God being electrical.  But you might be partly right, in a sense, about resurrection, in that it might be possible in the future to do things like teleportation or uploading your 'self' to non-organic media such as a cloud server.  We are essentially information patterns and patterns can be coded onto any substrate, there is nothing magical about carbon compounds in their ability to host information.  But it won't be easy, and you have to remember that, what constitutes 'me' is valid for the current moment in time only.

Woooa! You seem to have a deep mystical gnosis for the way the universe is Torridon.
Let's run this profundity again

'' you have to remember that, what constitutes 'me' is valid for the current moment in time only.''

Are you getting this stuff from the akashic record? Johanna Southcott's box or what?

I'm glad that you seem to support my idea though that a materialist should have no issue with the concept of raising (or reorganising matter) from the dead,

Writing the self or me in inverted commas seems self indulgent posturing....but that's you I guess.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Woooa! You seem to have a deep mystical gnosis for the way the universe is Torridon.
Let's run this profundity again

'' you have to remember that, what constitutes 'me' is valid for the current moment in time only.''

Are you getting this stuff from the akashic record? Johanna Southcott's boss or what?

The "me" you or I perceive is a combination of materials formed in stars and the forces that hold them together for the briefest moment of stellar time before they separate to who knows where.

I'm glad that you seem to support my idea though that a materialist should have no issue with the concept of raising (or reorganising matter) from the dead,

The "materialist" has no problem with the idea that conceptually at least such a thing could one day be possible given the right knowledge and techniques, but that says nothing to fantastical conjectures about it happening "supernaturally". 

Writing the self or me in inverted commas seems self indulgent posturing....but that's you I guess.

No, it's appropriately done because the concept "me" was under discussion rather than that word being used in its everyday sense.

[NicholasMarks]

No Nick I'm not talking about 'expert' witnesses, I'm talking about actual witnesses.
You know the ones who actually were there, some who are still alive to recount the events should anyone care to ask.
Those witnesses.
Some of them Christians who used their witness to further the cause of Christianity.

Are they liars Nick?

Nick?

If you learnt to read the Holy Bible accurately Seb...you would also read other things accurately. We weren't discussing what you said we were discussing what Sassy said...and she said that concerning the luna-landing there are claims and counter claims between expert witnesses.

Now...if you want to bring Seb into the conversation...what right have you got to argue that many witnesses, some of great integrity, are liars about the resurrection...even when I have shown you that it is possible if we look at modern science and what other witnesses have already told us in this, our own day and age...Oh, I forgot...you are reluctant to look at the evidence. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,
 
The "materialist" has no problem with the idea that conceptually at least such a thing could one day be possible given the right knowledge and techniques, but that says nothing to fantastical conjectures about it happening "supernaturally". 

But then it's possibility, in the context you are talking about would take some intelligence and intimate knowledge of the design criteria (he said with a twinkle and a nod to dawkinsian mischieviousness)

[NicholasMarks]

I don't think Jesus is claimed to have said anything about God being electrical.  But you might be partly right, in a sense, about resurrection, in that it might be possible in the future to do things like teleportation or uploading your 'self' to non-organic media such as a cloud server.  We are essentially information patterns and patterns can be coded onto any substrate, there is nothing magical about carbon compounds in their ability to host information.  But it won't be easy, and you have to remember that, what constitutes 'me' is valid for the current moment in time only.

I missed this one torri...sorry.

Jesus said...and I quote...'God is a Spirit and all who worship him must do so in spirit and in truth'. Now...I'm not sure that electric is used anywhere in the Holy Bible but I have used it to describe the material that spirits are made out of...a plasma that is all around us all the time...an invisible, superabundant, virtually undetectable plasma that created all the electric/spiritual phenomenon that we observe scientifically today.

We need an invisible, hardly detectable science to explain things...This is what Jesus taught us.

[Sebastian Toe]

If you learnt to read the Holy Bible accurately Seb...you would also read other things accurately. We weren't discussing what you said we were discussing what Sassy said...and she said that concerning the luna-landing there are claims and counter claims between expert witnesses.

If you learnt to read the threads Nick, accurately, you wouldn't be saying that.

Would you like to read hat Sassy said?

Here it is here to help you

Two: no human eyewitness but scientist who through advances in science claim it to be a scam.

That was when I pointed out that there were/are human witnesses to the moon landings ie the guys ho were actually there.

So to repeat my question to you.
Do you think that the human eye witnesses to the moon landings ie the astronauts who actually went to the moon - are not telling the truth?
Simpe question Nick. Are you able to read the question accurately and answer it honestly?

[ippy]

There is a part of you that will not burn and it will not be disected to help anyone. It is the part that Jesus gave you the opportunity to bring back to a new vessel via the mechanics of resurrection he showed you.

Now...OK, you are happy to go to the magnetic ether to twiddle your thumbs but some of us know that Jesus went there and snatched the keys from its doors so that those that followed him didn't become trapped.   

Well...if you don't get too bored...you can read in Revelation that all those in the ether will be tipped out, back to the flesh in time for God's Judgement. Some will go to everlasting life...here in the flesh...because they have shown they can follow righteousness. Others...well...errrr...wont be so lucky.

These are the things that can happen when you dabble with indestructible electrical forces that you refuse to bother reading about, even from the highest authority in the universe.

Really Nick? Yawn Yawn.

Let me know when you come back down and wake up in the real world Nick.

ippy

[ippy]

There is a part of you that will not burn and it will not be dissected to help anyone. It is the part that Jesus gave you the opportunity to bring back to a new vessel via the mechanics of resurrection he showed you.

Now...OK, you are happy to go to the magnetic ether to twiddle your thumbs but some of us know that Jesus went there and snatched the keys from its doors so that those that followed him didn't become trapped.   

Well...if you don't get too bored...you can read in Revelation that all those in the ether will be tipped out, back to the flesh in time for God's Judgement. Some will go to everlasting life...here in the flesh...because they have shown they can follow righteousness. Others...well...errrr...wont be so lucky.

These are the things that can happen when you dabble with indestructible electrical forces that you refuse to bother reading about, even from the highest authority in the universe.

I forgot to tell you Nick, that Uni has some pre conditions attached to my bod donation; I only want any of body parts for transplant to go to the now 51% of the UK population that are non-religious people, so that scrubs you off of the list Nick.

ippy

[NicholasMarks]

I forgot to tell you Nick, that Uni has some pre conditions attached to my bod donation; I only want any of body parts for transplant to go to the now 51% of the UK population that are non-religious people, so that scrubs you off of the list Nick.

ippy

That's fine by me ippy...though I'm in no position to ignore medical assistance.

You see, I believe, implicitly, that besides mans logic there is a deeper meaning to it all and that is what I try to reflect here. A power and a strength embodied within Jesus Christ's accurate teaching. A scientific strength that by your own acknowledgement you have no knowledge or interest in grasping.

I think it is poor university policy that allows the person to dictate who will get the organs donated...but I suspect you are having a little pun at my expence...even so...I am on a much bigger promise providing I don't flounder or fall at the obstacles well known to Jesus and Almighty God, and indeed many prior and current followers of the faith.