Author Topic: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ  (Read 213474 times)

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1675 on: July 04, 2018, 08:50:13 AM »
My first point of evidence is what I have seen with my own eyes...many planes spewing out huge amounts of disgusting fumes...you could have seen them as well but you are not looking else you have other motives for not seeing them. The sun is glaring like a white spotlight which any older person knows is unnatural and its shape is everchanging from large to small to elongated and to being obscured by these offensive unnatural cloud formations . We used to say red sky at night shepherds delight but now, for a very long time there is always an enormous reddish tint at sunset all over the the western sky. There is so much evidence on YouTube that to just turn your back on it is unforgivable. It all meets with practices and patents held in the US regarding geoengineering beside which there are huge amounts of chaos springing up all around the world. So...besides seeing it all for myself via various research methods...besides concerned people including scientists making the same observations, and despite it all being written of in the Holy Bible...I suggest that all the underground building work to store the salvation expectations and protection plans of the elite is a strong point of evidence too...I have a solid case, torrid.

Refusal to accept the evidence isn't evidence.






So, no evidence, then.
Anyone else surprised?
NM: torridon, who's far more expert in astrobnomy than I will ever even think of being, will tell you that we have sattelites in orbit around the sun, measuring, analyisding and learning more about it.
Don't you think  that they would have show ndetails of some change in solar shape?
Apart from the usual 11 yeat cycle, I don't think there's been any real change in the sun - and, NM, all data is freely available from verified, honest web sites - not the tripe you seem to delight in thinking is evidence.
Oh, by the way, go on - tell me the "sunbow" the remarkable image taken in Scotland last week, of what looked like a rainbow of sunshine, at sunset, was some dire prediction iof a planet colliding with us before breakfast.
You do not have one iota of peer reviewed evidence to back up your assertions.
Not one.
Admit it.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1676 on: July 04, 2018, 08:52:44 AM »
 
Evidence?
You're asking NM for Evidence?
You'll be lucky....I've tried that.
He seems to thing supposition and speculation coupled with youtube clips constitute evidence.
A couple of pages (or lifetimes) ago on this thread, I asked hime to come up with evidence to support oppression of Israel in Egypt. Not a jot, not a tittle. He hasn't even had the decency to apologise for his unsupported assertion.
I predict you'll get the usual waffle.

Oppression has its own voice Anchorman...it's rarely written about because those who organise oppression usually do all the writing. But here are clues, when one man can talk to many and get their attention because they are all in emotional turmoil. They all followed Moses because he offered the best option. We see similar cries for help all through history but oppressors have found a way around it...pretend they are speaking for Jesus Christ and/or Almighty God then carry on regardless...just like today.


Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1677 on: July 04, 2018, 09:01:16 AM »
Oppression has its own voice Anchorman...it's rarely written about because those who organise oppression usually do all the writing. But here are clues, when one man can talk to many and get their attention because they are all in emotional turmoil. They all followed Moses because he offered the best option. We see similar cries for help all through history but oppressors have found a way around it...pretend they are speaking for Jesus Christ and/or Almighty God then carry on regardless...just like today.
Which part of the word "evidence" don't you understand, NM? Here's an example of a thread - my thread, but that's not important - where evidence - real evidence - is produced. Try doing something similar, please. http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=13684.msg667615;topicseen#msg667615
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 09:06:12 AM by Anchorman »
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1678 on: July 04, 2018, 09:09:42 AM »
Or, NM, if you want an example of two Christians debating the evidence which does, or does not exist - and it concerns Israel, oppression, the Exodus, etc, go to
http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=13261.0
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7985
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1679 on: July 04, 2018, 09:22:15 AM »
Oppression has its own voice Anchorman...it's rarely written about because those who organise oppression usually do all the writing. But here are clues, when one man can talk to many and get their attention because they are all in emotional turmoil. They all followed Moses because he offered the best option. We see similar cries for help all through history but oppressors have found a way around it...pretend they are speaking for Jesus Christ and/or Almighty God then carry on regardless...just like today.


There have been many people in history who got the attention of others BIG TIME, and had many followers, like Hitler, for instance.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1680 on: July 04, 2018, 09:44:51 AM »

There have been many people in history who got the attention of others BIG TIME, and had many followers, like Hitler, for instance.

I'll get back to you later Anchorman because it deserves a deeper thought process...but following leaders Littleroses is what we are all good at...but if you follow the chain of command of the tyrants you find the same pattern emerging because it is a manufactured following designed by people who see no harm in manipulating other people by their distress...This is how Jesus and Moses are different they didn't create that distress they identified it and showed us how soothing and calming that distress could aid us through enormous problems like slavery, crucifixion and resurrection.

 

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7985
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1681 on: July 04, 2018, 12:10:12 PM »
I'll get back to you later Anchorman because it deserves a deeper thought process...but following leaders Littleroses is what we are all good at...but if you follow the chain of command of the tyrants you find the same pattern emerging because it is a manufactured following designed by people who see no harm in manipulating other people by their distress...This is how Jesus and Moses are different they didn't create that distress they identified it and showed us how soothing and calming that distress could aid us through enormous problems like slavery, crucifixion and resurrection.

 


Hmmmmmmmm! Christianity hasn't always been a force for good over the centuries, especially in the hands of extremists. The JW cult is one which stands out as an evil ideology. Catholic doctrine has also been very unpleasant too, when it has turned a blind eye to wrong perpetrated by its priests and others. The 'you must be 'saved' or else', dogma, can be extremely abusive too. >:(
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1682 on: July 04, 2018, 12:30:53 PM »
My aunt and uncle are JWs. They live in the West Country and rescue cats. Not noticeably evil.

torridon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1683 on: July 04, 2018, 01:11:07 PM »
My first point of evidence is what I have seen with my own eyes...many planes spewing out huge amounts of disgusting fumes...you could have seen them as well but you are not looking else you have other motives for not seeing them. The sun is glaring like a white spotlight which any older person knows is unnatural and its shape is everchanging from large to small to elongated and to being obscured by these offensive unnatural cloud formations . We used to say red sky at night shepherds delight but now, for a very long time there is always an enormous reddish tint at sunset all over the the western sky. There is so much evidence on YouTube that to just turn your back on it is unforgivable. It all meets with practices and patents held in the US regarding geoengineering beside which there are huge amounts of chaos springing up all around the world. So...besides seeing it all for myself via various research methods...besides concerned people including scientists making the same observations, and despite it all being written of in the Holy Bible...I suggest that all the underground building work to store the salvation expectations and protection plans of the elite is a strong point of evidence too...I have a solid case, torrid.

Refusal to accept the evidence isn't evidence.

So, Youtube then, that is your standard for evidence then.  That explains a lot.  We can dismiss most of the deluge of hogwash that gets posted up on Youtube; that is not evidence, any numpty with an internet connection can post up there for free and there is no verification process to stop people posting up misleading claims.

Back in the real world, there is nothing alarming happening to the shape of the Sun.  I was involved with solar observation work for the Royal Greenwich Observatory when I was younger, but now we have far more accurate solar monitoring with satellite technology than we could ever achieve through ground based optical astronomy.  The ESA/NASA Solar and Heliospheric Observatory has been providing mountains of observational data for years and it is all available for public viewing as well for research groups.  Here is a link to SOHO :

https://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/

There is some real evidence for you.  Ask yourself, are you always going to set your bar so low that you will let the idiocy on Youtube count as evidence ?  Up your game, start engaging with real world data produced by people with professional integrity and walk away from the drivel of conspiracy theorists.

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1684 on: July 04, 2018, 01:11:41 PM »
My aunt and uncle are JWs. They live in the West Country and rescue cats. Not noticeably evil.


Wot....the JW's or the cats...'cos you can't trust em, dem cats.....
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Dicky Underpants

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1685 on: July 04, 2018, 01:43:54 PM »
Looks as though he has answered our two questions Little Roses.

Thank you NM. I wondered because some seem to think you are a JW, or did think it, and I've been reading up on that particular sect from their own websites.  Found this which explains their take on the Lake of Fire, different to yours:-
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002521

(By the way a new film due for release soon called 'Apostasy' is about Jehovah's Witnesses, particularly one family. It's a UK film. Looks interesting, I've seen the trailer.)

Hello Robbie

It does appear that NM occasionally answers questions, though they are often buried among a lot of meaningless verbiage. On this occasion he has been unusually communicative, confirming on one matter what I'd said in the message of mine that you'd made reference to earlier. The question of blood transfusions is significant, and here NM seems to adopt a more humane - or less dogmatic - approach to the JWs. For them, blood transfusions are not negotiable - it is an inflexible dogma of their faith that these are against the will of God.
Curiously though (as I'd pointed out), their attitude to resurrections and afterlife are more wholesome, and in fact probably much more so than many a fundamentalist sect. Nicholas seems to think that the deceased are held in some sort of suspended animation "in the ether" (whatever that may be), whereas the JWs definitely believe that when you're dead, you're dead. Absolutely no torments of hell, or Lake of Fire, except as a symbol of utter extinction without hope of resurrection. The dead of previous ages are supposed to be held "in God's memory", and it is this 'memory' which is resuscitated. There are various criteria for what happens after that, but I can't think that these are a matter of great interest to anyone here. However, Nicholas seems to think that the 'unrighteous' will have some very unpleasant experiences at a future date, not just extinction (none of us can ever know, and far as I'm concerned, when I'm dead, I'm dead - I don't expect to be recycled, except as ash or manure).
He might have started his own sect, for all I know - there are probably people out there loopy enough to swallow his fantastical outpourings. However, since he seems to spend such a lot of his time here only to meet with people decisively rejecting everything he has to say, I doubt whether he has many followers anywhere. His approach seems somewhat masochistic. Wasn't there a scripture about "shaking the dust from off your sandals" if you didn't get a receptive audience?
If only.

The film looks interesting. I suppose the question of persecution of apostates may vary among JW communities. But there certainly have been some horror stories over the years. The book "Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave" by William Schnell is the classic account. And "Millions Now Living Will Never Die"* by Alan Rogerson shows how the scars of having been a long term believer can live on in the mind of an intelligent man.

*He re-used the title of a book by old 'Judge' Rutherford, a very rich and utterly loathsome sybarite, who certainly continued the tradition in promoting the idea that there's nothing so dotty that you can't get large numbers of the gullible to believe it if you work at it a bit.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 01:52:35 PM by Dicky Underpants »
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7985
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1686 on: July 04, 2018, 01:47:10 PM »
My aunt and uncle are JWs. They live in the West Country and rescue cats. Not noticeably evil.

However, if they are JWs as you say, they are likely to prefer someone to die rather than be given donated blood, which is an evil concept.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1687 on: July 04, 2018, 02:16:45 PM »
However, if they are JWs as you say, they are likely to prefer someone to die rather than be given donated blood, which is an evil concept.

No it isn't. It's a deeply misguided one.

wigginhall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17730
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1688 on: July 04, 2018, 02:35:05 PM »
When you're dead, you're dead - annihilationism, isn't it?  What a relief.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7985
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1689 on: July 04, 2018, 02:48:17 PM »
No it isn't. It's a deeply misguided one.

Of course it is evil, to withhold a life saving blood transfusion which results in a death. How many innocent children have died over the years because their JW parents refused to allow them to be given donated blood? I am glad the courts can overrule them these days.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11070
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1690 on: July 04, 2018, 03:13:39 PM »

There have been many people in history who got the attention of others BIG TIME, and had many followers, like Hitler, for instance.

Full house. I want a Godwin t-shirt as a prize.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1691 on: July 04, 2018, 04:24:43 PM »
Of course it is evil, to withhold a life saving blood transfusion which results in a death. How many innocent children have died over the years because their JW parents refused to allow them to be given donated blood? I am glad the courts can overrule them these days.

I agree the courts should overrule the parents, but it still isn’t evil if someone genuinely believes what they are doing is to save the soul of the ill person. Misguided, stupid, ignorant, yes, all of those... not evil though. The intent is not to harm.

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7985
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1692 on: July 04, 2018, 04:36:41 PM »
I agree the courts should overrule the parents, but it still isn’t evil if someone genuinely believes what they are doing is to save the soul of the ill person. Misguided, stupid, ignorant, yes, all of those... not evil though. The intent is not to harm.


I disagree, the intent is to harm if death is the inevitable result of not having a transfusion.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7512
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1693 on: July 04, 2018, 04:43:47 PM »
I agree with you Rhi, there's plenty of good in JWs. People always latch on to the blood transfusion business as if it is the only thing they believe in. As you say, they are misguided but so is everyone in one way or another.
.....

Of course it is evil, to withhold a life saving blood transfusion which results in a death. How many innocent children have died over the years because their JW parents refused to allow them to be given donated blood? I am glad the courts can overrule them these days.

Not just "these days" but for a very long time. I don't know how many innocent children or anybody at all died over the years in the past because of refusing a blood transfusion, do you know? I'll try and find out.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-Jehovahs-Witnesses-die-prematurely-every-year-because-they-refuse-blood-transfusions
...

(Oh and it wasn't 'Catholic doctrine' that caused abuse cover ups but I don't want to get on to that subject. JWs were talked about because of Nicholas liking some bits of their ideas.)

Dicky thank you for that long post including the book recommendation. I'll try and get hold of it.
God holding people in his memory for some reason made me think of homeopathy :-). It's good that Nicholas answered questions even with caveats, I'd love to know more about him as a person & wonder how his beliefs evolved but I respect his privacy.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 04:48:25 PM by Robbie »
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1694 on: July 04, 2018, 06:29:38 PM »

I disagree, the intent is to harm if death is the inevitable result of not having a transfusion.

Which just shows how little you understand about how beliefs work.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1695 on: July 04, 2018, 06:38:22 PM »
Which just shows how little you understand about how beliefs work.
How some beliefs work is that the stupid beliefs of some stupid cunts cause innocent victims - not always, but typically and tragically children - of other people's stupid ideas to die.

I understand that much.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64297
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1696 on: July 04, 2018, 06:38:48 PM »

I disagree, the intent is to harm if death is the inevitable result of not having a transfusion.

Except they think it is less harm than losing the consequences for the soul. You have talked before of your smacking children in certain circumstances. By your combined logic, i.e. Any action that brings harm is evil, even if it is seen as a leader harm, then you are evil.

Now I don't think you are evil, I just think you are misguided. Same with the JWs. That the consequences are worse doesn't change the principle. Evil is knowing that it is worse than the alternative and still doing it.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64297
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1697 on: July 04, 2018, 06:39:42 PM »
How some beliefs work is that the stupid beliefs of some stupid cunts cause innocent victims - not always, but typically and tragically children - of other people's stupid ideas to die.
Which doesn't make them evil - but welcome back and hope all is well with you.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1698 on: July 04, 2018, 06:40:54 PM »
Which doesn't make them evil - but welcome back and hope all is well with you.
You have a different definition of evil to mine.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64297
Re: The Electric/Spiritual Universe of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1699 on: July 04, 2018, 06:43:55 PM »
You have a different definition of evil to mine.
Quite possibly, I've covered what mine is, what is your definition?