Repent the end is nigh

[Sebastian Toe]

Ah but that is just a mere dictionary definition, it is the one Sass comes up with that counts!

Sass is more than happy to quote dictionary definitions when it suits her!

[Aruntraveller]

"Son, never trust a man who doesn’t drink because he’s probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They’re the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They’re usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they’re a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can’t trust a man who’s afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It’s damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he’s heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl." - James Crumley.

Just so as you know Floo 

[Dicky Underpants]

Agree the end has been nigh for a long time so I take no notice of it.  The idea for Christians (who are Christ's disciples) is that we should always be prepared in the sense of doing our best and then not worry about it but, certainly, there are those who constantly feel Armageddon is imminent and see all sorts of signs.  I'm not one of them!  There have always been 'signs'.  Makes for good literature with TV mini-series spin offs.

It also made for at least one great work of art:

www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/martin-the-great-day-of-his-wrath-n05613

The Great Day of His Wrath by John Martin

Beyond that, I suppose it keeps those who believe such things on their toes. However, this generally means bellowing on street corners, rather than being more usefully employed.

[Khatru]

He didn't mislead the word soon can mean any length of time and as he had told them.

I'll be interested to see that definition for "soon" in our dictionaries.

Please show me.

The floor is yours....

[Sassy]

I'll be interested to see that definition for "soon" in our dictionaries.

Please show me.

The floor is yours....

I don't have the problem you do!  Taking things out of the context they were said is your biggest deceptive reasoning when it comes to answering posts.

Sassy
Hero Member
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Posts: 9972

Re: Repent the end is nigh
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2016, 10:59:57 AM »

Quote from: Khatru on October 16, 2016, 10:26:15 AM
It doesn't really matter what it means to God.

He was communicating with humans and humans reckon time in human terms.

If his intention was that he wouldn't be back for at least 2000 years then he shouldn't have misled people by using the word soon.  If anything, he should have said that he won't be returning soon.

He didn't mislead the word soon can mean any length of time and as he had told them.

King James Bible
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

They knew that he was not telling them that the soon would be in their own life time.

Christ clearly told the disciples he had gone to prepare a place for them and was coming back for them.
Which he did as we see with Stephen. Acts 7 when stoned to death.

Constantly make comments for which it is obvious you have no knowledge or understanding about.

Christians, know Christ was not telling them he was coming ''soon'' as in next week or next month but that he like they knew that only God knew when.
Modify message

As I said, the disciples knew that Christ had no idea only the Father when he would return.

[Spud]

And:

[27]" For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done.
[28] Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Matt 16
 
Also
[63] But Jesus was silent. And the high priest said to him, "I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
[64] Jesus said to him, "You have said so. But I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Matt 27

We can take Matthew 16:28 and 27:64, which are talking about the Son of Man, to be a reference to the fulfillment of Daniel 7:13 (also talking about the Son of Man). In Acts 7:55-56, Stephen sees Jesus standing at the right hand of God,. So we see that whatever it was Jesus was talking about in Matthew16:28 and 27:64 was seen by Stephen at the time when the persecution against the church broke out, starting with that of Stephen.
The enthronement of the son of man referred to by Daniel must therefore have taken place when Jesus ascended into heaven. Coming on or with the clouds means coming to the ancient of days to receive the kingdom (Daniel 7:14).
That just leaves Matthew 16:27, which looks like a reference to the last judgement.

[Sebastian Toe]

We can take that last verse, which is talking about the Son of Man, as a reference to the fulfillment of Daniel 7:14 (also talking about the Son of Man). Also notice that Jesus told the high priest he would see the Son of Man at the right hand of God (and coming on the clouds of heaven). Then read Acts 7:55-56, in which Stephen sees Jesus standing at the right hand of God,. So we see that whatever it was Jesus was talking about in Matthew16:28 was seen by Stephen at the time when the persecution against the church broke out, starting with that of Stephen.
The enthronement of the son of man referred to by Daniel must therefore have taken place when Jesus ascended into heaven. Coming on or with the clouds means coming to the ancient of days to receive the kingdom (Daniel 7:14).
That just leaves Matthew 16:27, which looks like a reference to the last judgement.

.....soon?

[Spud]

Having noticed that post 83 didn't make sense I've edited it, apologies for any confusion.

[Spud]

.....soon?

After the Millennium

[Spud]

Whether it is a reference or not, there is no evidence there is such a scenario as the last judgement.

Actually the destruction of Jerusalem proves that that part of Jesus' prophecy was true,  which means that the part about the final judgement could also be true.

[Spud]

I bet the destruction of the Temple had nothing to do with any so called 'prophesy' made by Jesus;  words were put into his mouth after the event!

There wouldn't be any Christians today if he hadn't said it.

[Sebastian Toe]

After the Millennium

Which one?
..and will it be soon?

[Dicky Underpants]

That just leaves Matthew 16:27, which looks like a reference to the last judgement.

It does indeed, and mirrors in its details all the other prophecies mentioned, including the one given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians. This being the case, and presuming Christians think Christ cannot be mistaken, Matt 16:27 implies that some of the people Jesus was speaking to are still alive.....

And this is the reason that scripture has been given the absurd interpretation that it refers to the Transfiguration, which was supposed to have occurred a few days later. Unfortunately, there were no angels and universal judgment reported to have occurred at the Transfiguration.

[Spud]

It does indeed, and mirrors in its details all the other prophecies mentioned, including the one given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians. This being the case, and presuming Christians think Christ cannot be mistaken, Matt 16:27 implies that some of the people Jesus was speaking to are still alive.....

And this is the reason that scripture has been given the absurd interpretation that it refers to the Transfiguration, which was supposed to have occurred a few days later. Unfortunately, there were no angels and universal judgment reported to have occurred at the Transfiguration.

The last judgment aside, I think Acts 7:55-56 shows that Jesus had already 'come in his kingdom' (Matthew) - or as Mark put it, that the kingdom of God had come with power. Because Stephen saw Jesus at God's right hand.

[Khatru]

I don't have the problem you do!  Taking things out of the context they were said is your biggest deceptive reasoning when it comes to answering posts.

He didn't mislead the word soon can mean any length of time and as he had told them.

King James Bible
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

They knew that he was not telling them that the soon would be in their own life time.

Christ clearly told the disciples he had gone to prepare a place for them and was coming back for them.
Which he did as we see with Stephen. Acts 7 when stoned to death.

Constantly make comments for which it is obvious you have no knowledge or understanding about.

Christians, know Christ was not telling them he was coming ''soon'' as in next week or next month but that he like they knew that only God knew when.
Modify message

As I said, the disciples knew that Christ had no idea only the Father when he would return.

You said the word "soon" can mean "any length of time".

I asked you to show me the dictionary definition for this.

You failed to do so.

Looks like you've got a problem there, Sass.

[Khatru]

I wonder why the 'end timers' are so keen to get 'upstairs'? If an afterlife does exist I suspect it would be nothing like they think it will be.

Robots programmed to spend eternity telling Yaweh how great he is.

[Khatru]

WOW what tremendous fun, NOT! 

Robots in Heaven

It has to be that.

How else is Yaweh going to stop everything going pear-shaped?

[SusanDoris]

Thanks for that, Floo. The last bit certtainly was a laugh out loud!

[Dicky Underpants]

Why do you believe everything in the Bible is literally true, as you appear to do?

Floo

I don't think Spud is arguing for a 'literal' truth in these instances (at least as far as dating the Last Judgment, End times etc). What he's doing is promoting an extremely convoluted interpretation of a number of scriptures. If he were arguing for a literal truth on these matters, then there wouldn't be such a devious distortion of the meaning of such words as "soon", "quickly", in "this generation" etc. We all know what the literal meanings of such words are (and many modern biblical scholars of a critical outlook are quite happy with such literal interpretations here). The reason why fundamentalists and evangelicals are not happy with a literal interpretation of the time-interval involved is that it leads to the horrific implication that Jesus got it wrong.

This fits in with the usual procedure of fundamentalists and evangelicals: unless the scriptures are obviously of a poetic nature such as Psalms and Song of Solomon, they are quite happy to proceed "literally". This brings problems, because contradictions and other anomalies soon arise, and there are many - as you well know. It is then that the whole apparatus of convoluted exegesis and interpretation comes in to play, until the obstacle is explained away, and then the literal reading can continue until the next stumbling block.
So while such Christians certainly believe that all the Bible is true , it's certainly not the case that it's all a literal truth that's being asserted.

[Walter]

I used to believe with all my heart and soul that I was a millionaire so I went out and bought a brand new car.
Three days later I was arrested when the cheque bounced

so much for belief eh!

[Walter]

But some Christians do believe every word of the Bible is true, and the word of god.

and therein lies the problem,Floo

[wigginhall]

Very good post, Dicky.   I suppose the words over the eucharist are also disputed, aren't they?   'This is my body' - well not literally, if you are a Proddy dog.

[Anchorman]

Untransubstantiation rocks!

[Hope]

Very good post, Dicky.   I suppose the words over the eucharist are also disputed, aren't they?   'This is my body' - well not literally, if you are a Proddy dog.

Not literally according to some early Church leaders. 

In AD 400, Augustine quotes Cyprian (AD 200): "For as Christ says 'I am the true vine,' it follows that the blood of Christ is wine, not water; and the cup cannot appear to contain His blood by which we are redeemed and quickened, if the wine be absent; for by the wine is the blood of Christ typified, ..."

wikipedia

Note the use of 'typified' in the final sentence.

[Hope]

But some Christians do believe every word of the Bible is true, and the word of god.

There are many Christians who believe that every word of the Bible is true, without requiring a belief in transubstantiation, Floo.  One has to look at what the words say in context, rather than in isolation - which is, sadly, what many non-believers and even some believers do.