New UKIP leader

[BashfulAnthony]

The problem is that, if things go as it looks they might, we could be a 'winner' in a vastly de-powered world economy.  Brexiters said that this coulkd all be sorted in a year or two.  Even if Cameron had traiggetred Article 50 on the day after the result, it looks increasingly as if its going to be a long-drawn out process taking us up to and beyond the next General Election in 2020.

I haven't followed the thread, as it seems to me to be something of a nerd-fest!

[BashfulAnthony]

Precisely, BA - and it was because of this understanding that I and others campaigned - albeit the campaign got lost in the 'noise' of the rest of the process - that the understanding should be changed. In fact, over the years I and others have spoken to MPs and the Electoral Reform Society about changing the majority required in major votes like this.

Well, I fear you have been wasting your time.  Nothing is going to change any time soon.  On that basis you have to accept that we are working on a simple majority basis, and were in the Referendum. And it's now over and done.

[BashfulAnthony]

I'd rather not talk up a nation that is turning its back on the wider World.

But it is precisely the opposite that we are doing.  We are extending to the wider world, and at the same time intending to maintain our links with Europe, but not constrained under the aegis of the EU Constitution

[floo]

The problem is that, if things go as it looks they might, we could be a 'winner' in a vastly de-powered world economy.  Brexiters said that this coulkd all be sorted in a year or two.  Even if Cameron had traiggetred Article 50 on the day after the result, it looks increasingly as if its going to be a long-drawn out process taking us up to and beyond the next General Election in 2020.

I think you are right, the Government will be trying to see if there is anything which can be done to mitigate the disaster of Brexit.

[BashfulAnthony]

I think you are right, the Government will be trying to see if there is anything which can be done to mitigate the disaster of Brexit.

Name one thing that can be called a disaster.  I don't mean what you think might happen, but what has happened so far.

[jeremyp]

We don't know. I doubt anyone does.

It's become extremely concerning to me that you voted for a massive change to our position in the World and now you are freely admitting that you don't know what is going to happen.

It becomes increasingly pointless to speculate, especially as we aren't privy to what may be in the minds of those at the helm.

So you blindly followed the leader without understanding what they were going to do. Right. You placed everybody's future in doubt without any understanding of what happens next. You are irresponsible in the extreme.

[jeremyp]

But it is precisely the opposite that we are doing.

We have turned our back on the World because of xenophobia.

We are extending to the wider world,

No we aren't. Europe is part of the wider World and we just gave it two fingers.

and at the same time intending to maintain our links with Europe

Why have we just screwed over the EU then?

[BashfulAnthony]

We have turned our back on the World because of xenophobia.
No we aren't. Europe is part of the wider World and we just gave it two fingers.
Why have we just screwed over the EU then?

We have left the EU so that we are our own masters and not at the behest of them and their machinations, and dictated to by unelected politicians. As to your earlier comment about my not knowing what would happen, I was referring to how the various deals and negotiations would evolve. I have said I believe we will accomplish a better situation for the UK, but I don't pretend to know how it will all be achieved, and the detail of it: I am not a professional negotiator or politician.   I do believe, fervently, that we will be better off for all this.

[floo]

We have turned our back on the World because of xenophobia.
No we aren't. Europe is part of the wider World and we just gave it two fingers.
Why have we just screwed over the EU then?

Britain needs the EU we are far too small to stand alone these days. The vociferous Brexiteers fail to comprehend that.

[BashfulAnthony]

Britain needs the EU we are far too small to stand alone these days. The vociferous Brexiteers fail to comprehend that.

Too small?  Fifth largest economy in the world.  A nuclear power.  By your thinking there are only four countries fit to stand alone.  Nonsense!

[Jack Knave]

No as I recall it was Mr Farage who did that with him saying that if remain won by 52-48 it would be unfinished business. In other words he wouldn't have accepted the vote.

Sauce for the goose and all that.

That's right twist things to suit your project fear narrative.

[Jack Knave]

What a silly comment!

Leave Floo alone. When she's frothing at the mouth she can't help it, poor love!

[Jack Knave]

Brexit might have won but Brexiters have lost, just like everybody else.

The game isn't over yet!

[Jack Knave]

I'd rather not talk up a nation that is turning its back on the wider World.

You have proof of this, Jeremy?

[Harrowby Hall]

Too small?  Fifth largest economy in the world.  A nuclear power.  By your thinking there are only four countries fit to stand alone.  Nonsense!

Just quit the grandstanding and try to use your brain. (I know, it's a vain hope ...)

The following numbers are thousand million dollars (in other words you have to imagine there are 9 noughts following the decimal point) and they have come from the United Nations in 2014.

In order of GDP the largest economies in the world are:

1    European Union          18.5
2    USA                            17.3
3    China                          10.4
4    Japan                           4.6
5    Germany                      3.9
6    UK                                3.0

OK, the EU value includes the UK, but the UK only accounts for 16% of the GDP of the EU. That means that 84% of the EU's GDP is due to its other members. The rest of the EU is five times as large as the UK.

The USA is five times the size of the UK and China three times.

And you think that we are a major player in world terms?  No, we are just one of the fattest mackerel being rounded up by the sharks for their dinner.

Name one thing that can be called a disaster.

How about the steel works in South Wales that Tata closed just before the "referendum"? The xenophobic folly of the South Wales voters has totally screwed any chance of a buyer being found. It has also possibly ensured that the UK ceases to be a steel-producing country and will now be subject to the whims of the market - dominated by China.

Oh, freedom from the grip of the EU is so refreshing. We can take our place on the world stage - in the prompt corner.

[Hope]

We have left the EU so that we are our own masters and not at the behest of them and their machinations, and dictated to by unelected politicians.

A quick question, BA.  Since a lot of British government is done by unelected civil servants, not MPs, how does our 'democracy' differ from that of the EU?

[Hope]

That's right twist things to suit your project fear narrative.

The real Project Fear was the Brexit campaign's - but I didn't think Trent was pro-Brexit.

[Hope]

Too small?  Fifth largest economy in the world.  A nuclear power.  By your thinking there are only four countries fit to stand alone.  Nonsense!

And how much of that 5th position is as a result of trade with the EU?

[BashfulAnthony]

And how much of that 5th position is as a result of trade with the EU?

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that we will gain even more when we are our own masters.

Have a good night, I'm going to look at the Paralympics.

[jeremyp]

We have left the EU so that we are our own masters and not at the behest of them and their machinations,

You realise "they" were partly chosen by us. We were part of the EU.

and dictated to by unelected politicians.

The European Parliament is elected.

As to your earlier comment about my not knowing what would happen, I was referring to how the various deals and negotiations would evolve.

So was I. Your lot have dumped us out of the EU with no plan and no clue about what happens next.

I have said I believe we will accomplish a better situation for the UK

But you also believe in a God that became his own son and then engineered his own death to save us from a rule he made. What you believe is worth nothing.

[BashfulAnthony]

You realise "they" were partly chosen by us. We were part of the EU.

The European Parliament is elected.


So was I. Your lot have dumped us out of the EU with no plan and no clue about what happens next.
But you also believe in a God that became his own son and then engineered his own death to save us from a rule he made. What you believe is worth nothing.

I don't know why I am so surprised at your ignorance of the reality of the situation: perhaps you have been slacking in your googling recently! The real power in the EU is not the Parliament, but the unelected Commission, where the unctuous Jean-Claude Juncker holds sway, and he dislikes the UK. Naïve and uninformed people like you don't realise the power he has over us and our lives. That is what we have shaken off, and it is to the betterment of us all.  Certainly "we" voted for these organisations, but that was a long time ago, and we didn't realise what we were letting ourselves in for; and it was before it evolved into the stifling monolith it has become  As to the no-plan comment: true, but that is entirely down to Cameron and Osborne, who, in their total failure to appreciate what people were thinking, believed, arrogantly, that it was all plain sailing for them, and no plan was needed. The accusation is not one that should be aimed at Brexiters, but at your lot, complacent Remainers, who so lacked political nous, and were the ones in charge.. So, get your facts right, and blame the right people for the failure to prepare us.

Your comment on my belief in God is irrelevant and silly, just showing how desperate you are, as a loser! 

[jeremyp]

I don't know why I am so surprised at your ignorance of the reality of the situation: perhaps you have been slacking in your googling recently! The real power in the EU is not the Parliament, but the unelected Commission

The commissioners are chosen by the democratically elected governments of the EU much like or government is chosen by the party that we elected - not by us.

where the unctuous Jean-Claude Juncker holds sway, and he dislikes the UK.

Does he? You know him personally do you?

Naïve and uninformed people like you don't realise the power he has over us and our lives.

At least I know how the EU government is chosen, you don't even seem to know those basics. For instance you claimed that the power lies with the EU Commission. That is false, it lies with the European Council which is made up of the democratically elected heads of state.

we didn't realise what we were letting ourselves in for;

Most of us did. You however have just admitted that you don't know what you have let us all in for now.

Your comment on my belief in God is irrelevant and silly, just showing how desperate you are, as a loser!

I'm just pointing out that your beliefs are worth nothing because it seems you'll believe any old tripe. We need more than beliefs, we need a plan and your lot forgot to make one. We are all going to be losers and the one good thing about the vote is that we can blame you. It's your fault.

[BashfulAnthony]

The commissioners are chosen by the democratically elected governments of the EU much like or government is chosen by the party that we elected - not by us.
Does he? You know him personally do you?
At least I know how the EU government is chosen, you don't even seem to know those basics. For instance you claimed that the power lies with the EU Commission. That is false, it lies with the European Council which is made up of the democratically elected heads of state.
Most of us did. You however have just admitted that you don't know what you have let us all in for now.
I'm just pointing out that your beliefs are worth nothing because it seems you'll believe any old tripe. We need more than beliefs, we need a plan and your lot forgot to make one. We are all going to be losers and the one good thing about the vote is that we can blame you. It's your fault.

Do you have any idea about politics?  Your naivete is staggering.  Juncker is the power behind the EU despite what your muddled appreciation may be, and that is common knowledge, except to the politically inept, such as you.  Have you never listened to his speeches, read his views, listened to expert analysis of him?  Somehow managed to pick up his anti-UK rhetoric? Clearly not; and you don't need to know him personally to gauge all that  -  another silly comment by you.  As to making plans:  I repeat:  Remainers, Cameron and Osborne, were in charge, were the ones who should have made a plan, they were the Government for goodness' sake!  That was a dereliction of duty, and no wonder they skulled off and have been hiding somewhere since.  It is Cameron's legacy that he presided over the Referendum, lost it, and left others to pick up the pieces.  And as to your absurd and completely irrelevant snipe that I believe any tripe; well, apart from the crass comment that it is, it simply demonstrates the fact that you have no viable argument, that you cannot address the issue maturely and have to resort to insult, and that you are a desperate loser.

[jeremyp]

Do you have any idea about politics?

Clearly vastly more than you. You don't even know who runs the EU.

Juncker is the power behind the EU

Rubbish. Juncker has to implement policy in accordance with what the heads of state tell him to do.

Have you never listened to his speeches,

It doesn't matter what he says in his speeches, if he is told by the heads of state to do something (or not do something), he has to do it (or not do it).

There's also the small matter that he was appointed by the heads of state. He is accountable to the democratically elected governments of the EU member states.

Remainers, Cameron and Osborne, were in charge, were the ones who should have made a plan,

Stop blaming others for the mess Brexiters have made.

And as to your absurd and completely irrelevant snipe that I believe any tripe;

You were the one claiming your belief carried some authority. That makes your belief a legitimate target for attack. If you don't like it, you should have backed up your arguments with more than just your belief.

[Hope]

But you also believe in a God that became his own son ...

And what religion would that be, jeremy?