God is a Spirit

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

I will have to look up 'fallacious' Gordon...

That would be a very good idea.

I'll be interested to see whether you incorporate what you find out into your approach to posting here.

[NicholasMarks]

I don't know about 'overwhelming'.  If there was overwhelming evidence in favour then we would already be teaching it as fact in schools for instance. Religions by and large aren't based on evidence at all - that would be science. Religions are more based on faith, a different matter altogether.

That is true with most religions torri...some are copies of other religions but with alterations to suit the false prophets who teach them. Really...it's a nice little earner if you can get people to sign up for your brand of religion...this is  where brain-washing comes into the equation. Even thousands of years ago Egyptian leaders were administering their own brain-washing and just look at their achievements.But what we are discussing here is a teaching that pulls people out of brain-washing and in doing so proves that it is brain-washing causing all our health problems.

Nowadays we are in a free-for-all in brain-washing...lots and lots of it through the tele...but many other irresponsible routes.

Almighty God isn't going to argue with anyone. He has told us that a great catastrophe will hit us and this will serve as a refining tool for those who show initiative in reaching out for the repair of his world and those that can't be bothered.

I know which side I choose.

[NicholasMarks]

Sparky,

That would be a very good idea.

I'll be interested to see whether you incorporate what you find out into your approach to posting here.

I've looked it up and realise that it is something to do with circular  arguments of the nature I witness here bluehillside, often.

There is no truth in the opposing discussion point just belief...I am sure that you will understand that I take care to substantiate most of what I say using both the Holy Bible and modern science...its just that some of you have closed your minds on both counts...but are not hesitant in the least to use dawkinism to bolster your own fallacious remarks.

 

[Gordon]

Just one comment, Gordon: you say, "many of the rest of us live our lives without involving Christianity."  An odd comment, since you involve Christianity in your life every day of your life, as exemplified by your daily input here!

The difference is though is I treat Christianity as a spectator sport without having any desire to join in personally, whilst being perplexed at why anyone would bother to take it seriously: rather like cricket I suppose.

[Sebastian Toe]

.but the evidence is overwhelming...through Jesus Christ millions have had access to Almighty God's method of psycho-analysis, for 2000 years plus...this is perhaps why they are prepared to die for him.

The evidence is indeed overwhelming. The perfect book which none can surpass according to Islam, the Quran
Through the prophet Muhammad pbuh millions have had access to Allah's plans for humanity.....this is perhaps why they are prepared to die for him as can be witnessed a regular basis in recent years.

[Sebastian Toe]

I will have to look up 'fallacious' Gordon..

Hey Nick, whilst you are at it, would you mind awfully also looking up
Soon
Now
Nearly
Close
Imminant
Do let us know once you have done that, then the next time you post using those words we will all know that you understand their meaning.

[Nearly Sane]

Moderator This topic has had a number of posts removed due to a derail arising from harassment of a poster.

This post will be removed in due course

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

I've looked it up and realise that it is something to do with circular  arguments of the nature I witness here bluehillside, often.

Oh what a shame - if you had looked it up properly you'd have seen that there are lots of examples of fallacious reasoning, many of which you use here. Circular reasoning is one such, though you'd need to understand what that term means to realise that I don't do it whereas you do - a lot. Look, I'll show you: "God is real because an inerrant book says so; the book is inerrant because god made it that way". It's essentially all you bring to the table, and it's completely circular. 

There is no truth in the opposing discussion point just belief...I am sure that you will understand that I take care to substantiate most of what I say using both the Holy Bible and modern science.

No, you either ignore or fundamentally misrepresent what science actually says. Moreover, you cannot "substantiate" something by quoting from the bible without first making a case for why it's correct (and no - "because God made it that way" doesn't work. See above for why not.)

...its just that some of you have closed your minds on both counts...

No, some of us have open minds regarding the findings of science. What we're "closed" to though is your habit of just making things up and claiming them to be "scientific" when they're no such thing. Our minds must be closed too to just accepting whatever the bible happens to say until and unless you finally manage at least to attempt an argument for why you think its claims should be taken seriously.
 

...but are not hesitant in the least to use dawkinism...

There's no such thing. Please stop lying.

... to bolster your own fallacious remarks.

I'm glad you've found a new word to use. Really, I am. Now though you have to find out what it means. If the you think the arguments used against your claims are fallacious, then you need to explain why you think that. That's why when your posts consist almost entirely of fallacious reasoning some of us take the time to explain those fallacies to you. That you just ignore the explanations and carry on with the fallacies is another matter, but at least some of us try.   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Nicholas Marks in exchange with Bluehillside

Nicholas...but are not hesitant in the least to use dawkinism...

Blue...There's no such thing. Please stop lying.

Vlad...Isn't it a kind of positivism in corduroy trousers?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Nicholas Marks in exchange with Bluehillside

Nicholas...but are not hesitant in the least to use dawkinism...

Blue...There's no such thing. Please stop lying.

Vlad...Isn't it a kind of positivism in corduroy trousers?

No. It's just a fact.

[NicholasMarks]

Sparky,

Oh what a shame - if you had looked it up properly you'd have seen that there are lots of examples of fallacious reasoning, many of which you use here. Circular reasoning is one such, though you'd need to understand what that term means to realise that I don't do it whereas you do - a lot. Look, I'll show you: "God is real because an inerrant book says so; the book is inerrant because god made it that way". It's essentially all you bring to the table, and it's completely circular. 

No, you either ignore or fundamentally misrepresent what science actually says. Moreover, you cannot "substantiate" something by quoting from the bible without first making a case for why it's correct (and no - "because God made it that way" doesn't work. See above for why not.)

No, some of us have open minds regarding the findings of science. What we're "closed" to though is your habit of just making things up and claiming them to be "scientific" when they're no such thing. Our minds must be closed too to just accepting whatever the bible happens to say until and unless you finally manage at least to attempt an argument for why you think its claims should be taken seriously.
 
There's no such thing. Please stop lying.

I'm glad you've found a new word to use. Really, I am. Now though you have to find out what it means. If the you think the arguments used against your claims are fallacious, then you need to explain why you think that. That's why when your posts consist almost entirely of fallacious reasoning some of us take the time to explain those fallacies to you. That you just ignore the explanations and carry on with the fallacies is another matter, but at least some of us try.

dawkinism...

You know exactly what I mean bluehillside when I use it don't you??...many words come into common use this way so you will just have to accept it means exactly what it implies.

Just to remind you...it is Dicky Dawkin's view that Christianity should be put out of existence. He demands that science has made it obsolete, (my words), He has a better idea...sell as many books as possible...build up a faith surrounding his beliefs and to hell with the more gentle, kindlier, loving, considerate people that Jesus Christ's teaching encourages, (my words).

Now...we have a problem here...if the universe is indeed the product of universal, electric laws, the living-cell is also part of those laws and the many questions that have no answers in biology might just have solid reasoning if we consider those laws accurately. This will of course turn all science on its head because it is looking for nuclear particles when they should be looking for an invisible electric plasma...similar to the stuff defined in the Holy Bible.

Still, there is a lot of mileage in sifting, analyzing,and naming nuclear shrapnel...its just that it will all soon end when they realise they are looking in the wrong direction.

 

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

dawkinism...

You know exactly what I mean bluehillside when I use it don't you??...many words come into common use this way so you will just have to accept it means exactly what it implies.

If you want to invent neologisms of your own then it's for you to tell us what you think they imply.

Just to remind you...it is Dicky Dawkin's view that Christianity should be put out of existence.

It's Richard Dawkins, and just to remind you he actually says precisely the opposite of that. Specifically, he says he wouldn't be without it because of its cultural importance to him

He demands that science has made it obsolete, (my words),...

No he doesn't. What he actually says - rightly as it happens - is that science demonstrably comes up with better answers to scientific questions than does religion. 

He has a better idea...sell as many books as possible...build up a faith surrounding his beliefs and to hell with the more gentle, kindlier, loving, considerate people that Jesus Christ's teaching encourages, (my words).

Your words and entirely your invention too. He neither says nor implies any such thing.

Now...we have a problem here...

You have - it's called lying.

...if the universe is indeed the product of universal, electric laws, the living-cell is also part of those laws and the many questions that have no answers in biology might just have solid reasoning if we consider those laws accurately.

It isn't. The electromagnetic force is just one of the four fundamental universal forces. "Living cells" are of course subject to it like anything else, but the phenomenon is well understood and explained already by biology. Quantum biology incidentally is a burgeoning field of study - you should look it up. 

This will of course turn all science on its head because it is looking for nuclear particles when they should be looking for an invisible electric plasma...similar to the stuff defined in the Holy Bible.

Your scientifically illiterate fantasies are noted.

Still, there is a lot of mileage in sifting, analyzing,and naming nuclear shrapnel...its just that it will all soon end when they realise they are looking in the wrong direction.

My lunchtime alphabet soup made more sense than that. Do you want to try again using comprehensible language?

[NicholasMarks]

Sparky,

If you want to invent neologisms of your own then it's for you to tell us what you think they imply.

It's Richard Dawkins, and just to remind you he actually says precisely the opposite of that. Specifically, he says he wouldn't be without it because of its cultural importance to him

No he doesn't. What he actually says - rightly as it happens - is that science demonstrably comes up with better answers to scientific questions than does religion. 

Your words and entirely your invention too. He neither says nor implies any such thing.

You have - it's called lying.

It isn't. The electromagnetic force is just one of the four fundamental universal forces. "Living cells" are of course subject to it like anything else, but the phenomenon is well understood and explained already by biology. Quantum biology incidentally is a burgeoning field of study - you should look it up. 

Your scientifically illiterate fantasies are noted.

My lunchtime alphabet soup made more sense than that. Do you want to try again using comprehensible language?

Ohhhh...The author of 'The God Delusion' now values the teaching of Jesus Christ because it is part of his heritage...it has cultural importance. You see how brain washing works bluehillside. Its a bit like the powers who want to paint Hitler as a good guy who are trying to say it wasn't him that committed all those atrocities. Those who want to portray that view pretend they believe it and ram it down the throats of those who follow them, then, before you know it, it is accepted fact and all those poor people who were hounded and bludgeoned by that regime are forgotten...except by those who refuse to forget them.

Science to you then is a done deal. Everybody knows everything and whilst the working of the living cell is concerned we've got it all sussed...Oh...but what about cancer...and all the other debilitating illnesses in the medical archives that have no answers. Perhaps Dicky has these under his belt as well.

I have news for you, bluehillside...the book you condemn, in favour of The God Delusion has more scientific answers than you could possibly imagine. For one very important reason...It tells us that it is an electric/spiritual universe and Almighty God is well worth consulting because...well...he has a science that can resurrect the dead.

 

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

Ohhhh...The author of 'The God Delusion' now values the teaching of Jesus Christ because it is part of his heritage...it has cultural importance.

There's no "now" about it - he's said that consistently. That you misrepresented him (to put it politely) is a problem for you, not him.

You see how brain washing works bluehillside.

You don’t understand the term “brainwashing”, and no in any case – reporting accurately what someone says and correcting you in the process has nothing to do with “brainwashing”.

Its a bit like the powers who want to paint Hitler as a good guy who are trying to say it wasn't him that committed all those atrocities.

So now you’re comparing RD to Hitler are you? Seriously? And in any case, you’re comparing an example of getting something factually right with getting something factually wrong. Big fail.

Those who want to portray that view pretend they believe it and ram it down the throats of those who follow them, then, before you know it, it is accepted fact and all those poor people who were hounded and bludgeoned by that regime are forgotten...except by those who refuse to forget them.

No-one does “portray that view” except for some holocaust denier types like David Irving. His views are widely derided and ignored by the mainstream historic consensus though.

Science to you then is a done deal. Everybody knows everything and whilst the working of the living cell is concerned we've got it all sussed...

If you’d bothered reading about logical fallacies you’d know what a straw man argument is. I told you about the current understanding in biology of the working of “living cells” and it’s a long way ahead of what you suppose it to be.

Oh...but what about cancer...and all the other debilitating illnesses in the medical archives that have no answers.

No-one says that there’s a catch-all cure for cancer, though recovery rates are improving all the time and many researchers are working on the problem. If you think you have a better answer run a clinical trial on it and publish your results. I suggest though that you don’t use the green ink when you apply for a funding grant. 

Perhaps Dicky has these under his belt as well.

Richard Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist, not a medical researcher.

I have news for you, bluehillside...

I very much doubt it, but try me…

…the book you condemn,…

Your relentless lying is getting dull now. I don’t “condemn” that book at all. What I actually do is to question the spin you put on it for the good reason that your efforts are logically, scientifically and for that matter linguistically incoherent.

… in favour of The God Delusion…

That’s called a false binary fallacy. You really should try reading up on logical fallacies some time.

… has more scientific answers than you could possibly imagine.

So you assert.

For one very important reason...It tells us that it is an electric/spiritual universe and Almighty God is well worth consulting because...well...he has a science that can resurrect the dead.

So the story goes, and indeed many credulous people think it’s true too. Weird eh?

[NicholasMarks]

Sparky,

There's no "now" about it - he's said that consistently. That you misrepresented him (to put it politely) is a problem for you, not him.

You don’t understand the term “brainwashing”, and no in any case – reporting accurately what someone says and correcting you in the process has nothing to do with “brainwashing”.

So now you’re comparing RD to Hitler are you? Seriously? And in any case, you’re comparing an example of getting something factually right with getting something factually wrong. Big fail.

No-one does “portray that view” except for some holocaust denier types like David Irving. His views are widely derided and ignored by the mainstream historic consensus though.

If you’d bothered reading about logical fallacies you’d know what a straw man argument is. I told you about the current understanding in biology of the working of “living cells” and it’s a long way ahead of what you suppose it to be.

No-one says that there’s a catch-all cure for cancer, though recovery rates are improving all the time and many researchers are working on the problem. If you think you have a better answer run a clinical trial on it and publish your results. I suggest though that you don’t use the green ink when you apply for a funding grant. 

Richard Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist, not a medical researcher.

I very much doubt it, but try me…

Your relentless lying is getting dull now. I don’t “condemn” that book at all. What I actually do is to question the spin you put on it for the good reason that your efforts are logically, scientifically and for that matter linguistically incoherent.

That’s called a false binary fallacy. You really should try reading up on logical fallacies some time.

So you assert.

So the story goes, and indeed many credulous people think it’s true too. Weird eh?

It's good to talk to you  bluehillside because through you I can make the Biblical truth come alive for all those who might come to this forum with the intention of seeking Jesus and find you instead.

Regardless of what you say you are pushing your own anti-Bible philosophy and potential followers of Jesus' accurate word need to know that you will knock down any righteous discussion point that is put forward.

Even though science cannot argue the point that it is an electric/spiritual universe...you can. Even though it is electric energy that drives all solar activity you can say it is balone and even though Almighty God says the universe is made from this wonderful dynamic energy that made every single star, is the route behind the knowledge of everything...you can shoot it down in flames, it seems, without even opening the Holy Bible.

Nice one bluehillside...I am dying to know what you think about the sciences that will be discovered from these simple facts because the proof is indesputable as far as I am concerned, they just need a little refinement. But that refinement will come as people in dire need start to realise that it is their only hope and not the bombastic denials of disbelievers.

 

[NicholasMarks]

Moderator Content removed

You would say that about anyone speaking Biblically, bluehillside, so I am in the good company of those who dare to speak out about the wonderful teaching in the Holy Bible...of Jesus Christ, who taught us so much...for so little.

God is a spirit and as soon as you realise this the better.

[Sassy]

Yep - Christianity is over-rated, and only 'amazing' to its fans (btw your argument involves an ad populum).

You have found  a way of rating Christianity? 

As Christianity is based on truth what untruth did you find which would over-rate it?

Truth is the Atheists, avoid the truth of Christianity, they cannot rate it, because if they wanted to rate it, they would have to become seekers of truth and have a love for the truth. You're avoiding the reality of what and who Christ died for. You place lesser importance on the meaning of life and even make your own life of no value outside your own senses.

The power which is Christianity has no rating with you, because you simply don't want it.
 

[torridon]

Science to you then is a done deal. Everybody knows everything and whilst the working of the living cell is concerned we've got it all sussed...Oh...but what about cancer...and all the other debilitating illnesses in the medical archives that have no answers. Perhaps Dicky has these under his belt as well.

Tha's another thing you have got plain wrong.

The value of science lies in its understanding that we haven't got everything sussed.  That is how science makes progress, by avoiding the certainties and authoritarian nature of 'revealed' religious knowledge, we remain light on our feet, more easily able to recognise when we have gotten things wrong, time for a new theory.

[NicholasMarks]

Tha's another thing you have got plain wrong.

The value of science lies in its understanding that we haven't got everything sussed.  That is how science makes progress, by avoiding the certainties and authoritarian nature of 'revealed' religious knowledge, we remain light on our feet, more easily able to recognise when we have gotten things wrong, time for a new theory.

I thought that was the point I was making...against your insistance that Almighty God has got it all wrong.

When you can work out where all this free energy is coming from that all science is getting excited about you will be much more advanced than them...but the line of logic that delivers it is contained in my posts and everything I write is deduced from Biblical instruction.

[torridon]

I thought that was the point I was making...against your insistance that Almighty God has got it all wrong.

When you can work out where all this free energy is coming from that all science is getting excited about you will be much more advanced than them...but the line of logic that delivers it is contained in my posts and everything I write is deduced from Biblical instruction.

I'm not saying god has got it wrong.  I'm pointing out where you have got it wrong.

[bluehillside Retd.]

torri,

I'm not saying god has got it wrong.  I'm pointing out where you have got it wrong.

Sparky does that a lot. If you disagree with him, he'll tell you that you're disagreeing the God/Jesus/the Bible. There's no separation in his mind between his opinions on his sources and the sources themselves. 

[torridon]

torri,

Sparky does that a lot. If you disagree with him, he'll tell you that you're disagreeing the God/Jesus/the Bible. There's no separation in his mind between his opinions on his sources and the sources themselves.

I'm sure there must be a name for that

[bluehillside Retd.]

torri,

I'm sure there must be a name for that

There is - it begins "Messiah..."

[NicholasMarks]

torri,

There is - it begins "Messiah..."

Thank you for applying a little decorum there bluehillside, not much, but a little.

You both can't see the wonderful science behind the Holy Bible so it is pointless telling you...but on the off chance that someone is tuned in and want to try and understand that teaching I will continue to enlighten you.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and those that follow him will never die...from this scientific statement we can see that he isn't using common logic to direct his thoughts and actions he is using a method that is common with all man-made methods...they have laws to substantiate them. Jesus' laws are quite easy to understand. There is an indestructable energy that we can harness under the auspices of Almighty God and become the way, the truth, and the life ourselves...with resurrection, repair and everlasting life, all sewn up...just as long as we don't set ourselves up to be oppressive towards that wonderful, righteous teaching.

This is just the starting point.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sparky,

esus is the way, the truth and the life and those that follow him will never die...from this scientific...

That's not what "scientific" means. Try again.