Islamophobia

[john]

Interesting article here about the silence about Muslim Vs Another kind of Muslim violence ... right here in the UK


http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/islamophobic-attacks-dont-hear/

[Nearly Sane]

Interesting article here about the silence about Muslim Vs Another kind of Muslim violence ... right here in the UK


http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/islamophobic-attacks-dont-hear/

There has not been silence about the Asad Shah murder in Scotland. It deeply shocked the community. Douglas should know better

[Brownie]

You're right NS, there is no silence.
I imagine no Muslims particularly wanted to discuss the issue with Douglas Murray, why would they?

[Hope]

There has not been silence about the Asad Shah murder in Scotland. It deeply shocked the community. Douglas should know better

There hasn't been silence in the rest of the UK, either.  DM clearly hasn't been following the media much.

[trippymonkey]

Why is this post titled Islamophobia ?!?!?

BTW
There's been just as much murdering violence of Muslim ON Muslim since Islam was invented !!!
Shia - Sunni - Wahhabi - Sufi ?!!?!??

We've been hearing about what IS are doing to others NOT of THEIR version recently too !!!

This has all been going on for many centuries.
If the Quran is so bloody clear then why are there so many groups of differing opinions within Islam itself These are not recent developments either !!

Nick

[Brownie]

The implication in the article linked in the opening post, trippy, is what could be considered Islamophobic.  It isn't accurate and is certainly biased.

It's a great pity there are not more Muslim posters on here, especially on the Muslim Topic, though I don't blame any of them one bit for not wanting to post here.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Interesting article here about the silence about Muslim Vs Another kind of Muslim violence ... right here in the UK


http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/islamophobic-attacks-dont-hear/

If there was silence and a lack of condemnation of Muslim on Muslim murders I would agree with the article. But it is not as simplistic and straight forward as Murray pretends it is. I would be interested to know what Murray considers to be silence. The Muslim Council of Britain for example condemned the murder of Asad Shah.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/murder-in-glasgow-mcb-condemns-religiously-aggravated-attack/

Is the problem then that the media widely published the views of the murderer's supporters because it made for a good story but did not widely publicise statements issued that contradicted the narrative the media want to present about Muslims?

I think the onus is on us as individuals to actively investigate the stories we hear or read in order to hold informed opinions and not allow ourselves to be manipulated - whether it is by the media or religious clerics or politicians or any other charismatic individuals. 

[trippymonkey]

AGREED !!!!!

[JP]

Move along, nothing to see here, just the usual islamophobic article.

[Brownie]

Well said jp
Would be nice to see threads started by Muslims on the Muslim Topic, with other Muslims discussing points of faith from all angles and visitors from other faiths politely asking questions.  That was how it was on the BBC.  Same in the Jewish topic.  I always found it fascinating but when this board started, all the threads were started by Christians and were invariably confrontational.

[JP]

Alas Brownie, irony and sarcasm, not easily seen in places like this.

Do you really believe Muslims would post here to discuss Islam and people would politely post questions? If it was, in my experience it would be a first.

With regard to the article, I think Murray was highlighting how those murders came to take place and the reaction to them, especially the support the killer of Asad Shah received from the public gallery and the reaction of his supporters to the verdict. This is because they fail to understand the enormity of his crime, possibly as they look towards the land of their fathers for an example. A land in which people the same as Mr Shah are frequently beaten or tortured to death while the police, who have been around while this was taking place, fail to take any action. This is because in Pakistan the Ahmadiyya Muslims are not considered to be Muslim and their persecution is supported by state legislation defining the sect as not Muslim, as well as that lovely Pakistani blasphemy legislation which Murray also touches on.

This has been imported here, into the UK and we will never know how many people secretly support or sympathise with the murderer.

[Brownie]

Do you really believe Muslims would post here to discuss Islam and people would politely post questions? If it was, in my experience it would be a first.

I do believe it is possible, it used to be so on the BBC message board;  when non-Muslim posters chimed in offensively, the mods took action.  It was the same on the Jewish topic.  Both were very interesting and informative.

With commitment it could happen but I doubt it will now.

[JP]

Offensively....

Now there's a loosely defined word when it comes to Islam and discussing it.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Alas Brownie, irony and sarcasm, not easily seen in places like this.

Do you really believe Muslims would post here to discuss Islam and people would politely post questions? If it was, in my experience it would be a first.

With regard to the article, I think Murray was highlighting how those murders came to take place and the reaction to them, especially the support the killer of Asad Shah received from the public gallery and the reaction of his supporters to the verdict. This is because they fail to understand the enormity of his crime, possibly as they look towards the land of their fathers for an example. A land in which people the same as Mr Shah are frequently beaten or tortured to death while the police, who have been around while this was taking place, fail to take any action. This is because in Pakistan the Ahmadiyya Muslims are not considered to be Muslim and their persecution is supported by state legislation defining the sect as not Muslim, as well as that lovely Pakistani blasphemy legislation which Murray also touches on.

This has been imported here, into the UK and we will never know how many people secretly support or sympathise with the murderer.

I think it's fine that Murray links to an article highlighting that the murderer had about 20 supporters outside the court. I doubt this is the first time a murderer or thug who feels justified in killing someone has amassed supporters outside court - but yes it is offensive that 20 people showed up to support murder.

You are correct that Murray has not presented any evidence to show that that there is more widespread support in Britain of the murder. He also decided to ignore the condemnation of the murder from Muslims and non-Muslims - therefore not a very well researched article. What do you think we are meant to make of his selective reporting?

[Brownie]

Offensively....

Now there's a loosely defined word when it comes to Islam and discussing it.

Insulting?  Would that be a more suitable word?
It doesn't just apply to discussing Islam.

[john]

I am surprised no one here has picked up on the main inference of the story ie.

When the term islamophobia is used the normal inference is that non Muslims are being nasty to Muslims.

The article was pointing out that the term can also be applied to Muslims being beastly to other kinds of Muslims too.

In fact it seems to me that the majority of beastliness to Muslims throughout the world is being done by other kinds of Muslims... Rather than by non believers as Muslims would claim.
 

[ekim]

I am surprised no one here has picked up on the main inference of the story ie.

When the term islamophobia is used the normal inference is that non Muslims are being nasty to Muslims.

The article was pointing out that the term can also be applied to Muslims being beastly to other kinds of Muslims too.

In fact it seems to me that the majority of beastliness to Muslims throughout the world is being done by other kinds of Muslims... Rather than by non believers as Muslims would claim.

I should have thought that Islamophobia meant fear of Islam and therefore aggressive towards it.  Sectarian violence in Islam between say Shia and Sunnis is different and on a par with that between Catholics, Protestants and Eastern Orthodox and mostly an internal power struggle.  Muslims are unlikely to suffer from Islamophobia.

[trippymonkey]

So how do we refer to what IS have been doing to other sects of Islam apart from their own dodgy one

[ekim]

So how do we refer to what IS have been doing to other sects of Islam apart from their own dodgy one

... perhaps as the imposition by force of a theocracy as defined by those with the power to do so.

[trippymonkey]

INDEED ?!!? And haven't we been having THAT as far back as mankind ?!!?!?!?

[ekim]

Quite likely.  It helps to have a God on your side .... for God and my country.

[trippymonkey]

OOH I can feel the sarcasm even on my computer ?!!?!? LOL

[ekim]

Well it worked at Agincourt .... Cry God for Harry, England and St. George .... Charge....... 

[JP]

Insulting?  Would that be a more suitable word?
It doesn't just apply to discussing Islam.

I agree, it doesn't however some people appear to me more touchy than others.

[JP]

I think it's fine that Murray links to an article highlighting that the murderer had about 20 supporters outside the court. I doubt this is the first time a murderer or thug who feels justified in killing someone has amassed supporters outside court - but yes it is offensive that 20 people showed up to support murder.

You are correct that Murray has not presented any evidence to show that that there is more widespread support in Britain of the murder. He also decided to ignore the condemnation of the murder from Muslims and non-Muslims - therefore not a very well researched article. What do you think we are meant to make of his selective reporting?

The article had a particular point to make and had nothing, as far as I could see, about people condemning anything. It was more targeted at the "Islamophobia" industry hypocrites.