Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer

[Owlswing]

Apart from the deity involved is there any difference between a witch's spell and a Christian prayer? i e - a witch casts a spell to heal a friend and calls upon Brigid (pronounced Breed) for her assistance - a Christian says a prayer asking God for his help in the healing.

Is there really any fundamental difference between the two?

I will admit to there being an equal chance that neither deity will choose to provide the requested help.

[BeRational]

Apart from the deity involved is there any difference between a witch's spell and a Christian prayer? i e - a witch casts a spell to heal a friend and calls upon Brigid (pronounced Breed) for her assistance - a Christian says a prayer asking God for his help in the healing.

Is there really any fundamental difference between the two?

I will admit to there being an equal chance that neither deity will choose to provide the requested help.

As you say, they both look the same.

[Sassy]

I guess if Witch/Pagan spell worked then there would be no Christians required to pray.
Not heard of any miraculous outcome when they cast their spells.
But Jesus Christ healed and did miracles and his followers do it in his name.

I believe the present Christian faith speaks for itself. We are still waiting for the Witch/Pagan to show us something.

[Jack Knave]

Psychologically no. Both are a function of the Unconscious.

[Hope]

Psychologically no. Both are a function of the Unconscious.

In everyday English, please, Jack; especially the second sentence.

[Owlswing]

I guess if Witch/Pagan spell worked then there would be no Christians required to pray.

Where did I say that the Witch/Pagan and the Christian were praying for ther same thing or for the same person?

Not heard of any miraculous outcome when they cast their spells.

Of course not - you wouldn't listen if someone told you about it. Pagans/Witches do not, like Christians, need to trumpet there successes to the public. We are also, within our community, willing to admit that, while we are convinced that the deity hears all spells, somethimes the answer is no.

But Jesus Christ healed and did miracles and his followers do it in his name.

I believe the present Christian faith speaks for itself. We are still waiting for the Witch/Pagan to show us something.

And we Witches and Pagans are still waiting for you Christians to provide proof that Christ rose from the dead. You provide that, and we do not mean reams and reams of emboldened quotes from the Book of Two Thousand Years of Chinese Whispers, and we will provide proof that spells work as well as prayer.

Quite apart from which, of course, I did not ask if they (prayers) worked and neither did I say that spells do - I asked what the difference is between the act of spell-casting or offering a prayer apart from the diety/deities involved.

Your response is, to me anyway, a confirmation of my suspicion that there is, at base, no difference at all between the two.

[Owlswing]

This thread demonstrates ad state of this forum.

46 vierws (as at the time of posting) and only four responses. What are the views of the other 42 viewers? And why have they not posted them? Even if only to ask "Who cares?"

[Nearly Sane]

This thread demonstrates ad state of this forum.

46 vierws (as at the time of posting) and only four responses. What are the views of the other 42 viewers? And why have they not posted them? Even if only to ask "Who cares?"

Possibly because that would be fairly pointless and needlessly rude. Possibly because some of the other posts were enough. From my own point of view, BeRational said all I would have wanted.


The number of replies on a single thread is indicative of nothing. When we averaged 400 - 500 posts a day, there were still threads that could get 1 reply and 100 views.

[Owlswing]

Possibly because that would be fairly pointless and needlessly rude. Possibly because some of the other posts were enough. From my own point of view, BeRational said all I would have wanted.


The number of replies on a single thread is indicative of nothing. When we averaged 400 - 500 posts a day, there were still threads that could get 1 reply and 100 views.

Fair enough

[jeremyp]

This thread demonstrates ad state of this forum.

46 vierws (as at the time of posting) and only four responses. What are the views of the other 42 viewers? And why have they not posted them? Even if only to ask "Who cares?"

I'msorry, I didn't know it was compulsory to respond to your threads.

Anyway, if it makes you feel any better, a 10/1 view/response ratio is about the norm for this forum.

And the answer to your question in my opinion is no because neither the goddess Brigid nor the Christian god answer prayers at all - being fictional and all.

[Sassy]

Where did I say that the Witch/Pagan and the Christian were praying for ther same thing or for the same person?

I have no idea what you are talking about, I simply wrote:-

I guess if Witch/Pagan spell worked then there would be no Christians required to pray.
Not heard of any miraculous outcome when they cast their spells.
But Jesus Christ healed and did miracles and his followers do it in his name.

I believe the present Christian faith speaks for itself. We are still waiting for the Witch/Pagan to show us something.

Why ask about something NO ONE has said anything about?

Of course not - you wouldn't listen if someone told you about it.

Would anyone be able to avoid listening?
It is best to stick with the facts... the truth that none have been known to happen.
Seems like a case of bad eggs.

Pagans/Witches do not, like Christians, need to trumpet there successes to the public.

Whilst the simple truth is they have had no successes. Christians do not have success their God does.

We are also, within our community, willing to admit that, while we are convinced that the deity hears all spells, somethimes the answer is no.

The pagan god of power, he like to say NO.
Whilst all the answers to Gods promises through Christ is 'yes'.
Does that mean that one exists and the other doesn't?

And we Witches and Pagans are still waiting for you Christians to provide proof that Christ rose from the dead. You provide that, and we do not mean reams and reams of emboldened quotes from the Book of Two Thousand Years of Chinese Whispers, and we will provide proof that spells work as well as prayer.

You admit our prayers get answered? You say prove Christ rose from the dead.
You say you will provide proof that spells work? Are you really aware that the prayers get answered because the writer and author of the words in the bible does as he promised?
You cannot say you will win something after you have already lost.
What would a spell working really prove? When in truth if it did we would already know.

Quite apart from which, of course, I did not ask if they (prayers) worked and neither did I say that spells do - I asked what the difference is between the act of spell-casting or offering a prayer apart from the diety/deities involved.

You wrote:-

Apart from the deity involved is there any difference between a witch's spell and a Christian prayer? i e - a witch casts a spell to heal a friend and calls upon Brigid (pronounced Breed) for her assistance - a Christian says a prayer asking God for his help in the healing.

Is there really any fundamental difference between the two?

I will admit to there being an equal chance that neither deity will choose to provide the requested help.

The obvious difference is prayers do get answered. Spells do nothing.

Your response is, to me anyway, a confirmation of my suspicion that there is, at base, no difference at all between the two.

Your spells not working makes a big difference to the truth that your power is non existence but Gods power is. If you think I missed something...which I don't think I did then let us know. But the reality is you are bound to think there is no difference if you never experience anything and deny the reality of prayers being answered by God.

[Sassy]

This thread demonstrates ad state of this forum.

46 vierws (as at the time of posting) and only four responses. What are the views of the other 42 viewers? And why have they not posted them? Even if only to ask "Who cares?"

Perhaps they weren't born with a silver wand in their hand...

[Owlswing]

I'm sorry, I didn't know it was compulsory to respond to your threads.

Anyway, if it makes you feel any better, a 10/1 view/response ratio is about the norm for this forum.

This comment was a tad unnecessary if you read #7 and #8.

[quore]

And the answer to your question in my opinion is no because neither the goddess Brigid nor the Christian god answer prayers at all - being fictional and all.

[/quote]

However this comment is gratefully received. Thank you.

[Owlswing]

I have no idea what you are talking about, I simply wrote:-


Why ask about something NO ONE has said anything about?
Would anyone be able to avoid listening?
It is best to stick with the facts... the truth that none have been known to happen.
Seems like a case of bad eggs.
Whilst the simple truth is they have had no successes. Christians do not have success their God does.
The pagan god of power, he like to say NO.
Whilst all the answers to Gods promises through Christ is 'yes'.
Does that mean that one exists and the other doesn't?

You admit our prayers get answered? You say prove Christ rose from the dead.
You say you will provide proof that spells work? Are you really aware that the prayers get answered because the writer and author of the words in the bible does as he promised?
You cannot say you will win something after you have already lost.
What would a spell working really prove? When in truth if it did we would already know.

You wrote:-

The obvious difference is prayers do get answered. Spells do nothing.
Your spells not working makes a big difference to the truth that your power is non existence but Gods power is. If you think I missed something...which I don't think I did then let us know. But the reality is you are bound to think there is no difference if you never experience anything and deny the reality of prayers being answered by God.

Again you have answered a question that I did not ask!

Let me put it more simply!

What is the difference between a Christian in church service saying:

"Dear God, I/we humbly ask that you give Mr/Mrs X relief from the pain of the cancer from which she is suffering. Amen"

. . . and a Pagan/Witch in ritual circle saying:

Goddess Brigid, we request that you use your power of healing to lessen the pain that Mr/Mrs X is suffering due to the cancer that she has."

Now will you please answer the question that is being asked, as both the Christian and the Pagan/Witch have the same expectation that their deity will do as they ask. 

[Sassy]

Again you have answered a question that I did not ask!

Let me put it more simply!

What is the difference between a Christian in church service saying:

"Dear God, I/we humbly ask that you give Mr/Mrs X relief from the pain of the cancer from which she is suffering. Amen"

. . . and a Pagan/Witch in ritual circle saying:

Goddess Brigid, we request that you use your power of healing to lessen the pain that Mr/Mrs X is suffering due to the cancer that she has."

Now will you please answer the question that is being asked, as both the Christian and the Pagan/Witch have the same expectation that their deity will do as they ask.

You asked and I quote:

Posted by: Owlswing
« on: September 24, 2016, 10:39:15 AM » Insert Quote

Apart from the deity involved is there any difference between a witch's spell and a Christian prayer? i e - a witch casts a spell to heal a friend and calls upon Brigid (pronounced Breed) for her assistance - a Christian says a prayer asking God for his help in the healing.

Is there really any fundamental difference between the two?

I will admit to there being an equal chance that neither deity will choose to provide the requested help.

The difference is that the Christian prays knowing that their God is there and even if the person does not get well they will be in paradise with Christ.
The Witch knows there is no one there to answer or make her spell work.
BIG DIFFERENCE but why as a pagan would you have needed to ask?
Doesn't your spell books tell you the answers you require? Gods book does...
The Christian has HOPE just as the story of Pandoras box says only Hope was left in the box after it was re-shut.
But the Witch never had a hope even at the beginning.

Now unless there is something else your book of spells does not give you the answer to. I trust you now know the difference.
The Christian prays with Hope and even expectation but with the sure knowledge that God has already provided for those they pray for. The Witch has no reason to hope and no hope in an answer.

[Owlswing]

You asked and I quote:
The difference is that the Christian prays knowing that their God is there and even if the person does not get well they will be in paradise with Christ.
The Witch knows there is no one there to answer or make her spell work.
BIG DIFFERENCE but why as a pagan would you have needed to ask?
Doesn't your spell books tell you the answers you require? Gods book does...
The Christian has HOPE just as the story of Pandoras box says only Hope was left in the box after it was re-shut.
But the Witch never had a hope even at the beginning.

Now unless there is something else your book of spells does not give you the answer to. I trust you now know the difference.
The Christian prays with Hope and even expectation but with the sure knowledge that God has already provided for those they pray for. The Witch has no reason to hope and no hope in an answer.

You are truly blind!

The Witch knows there is no one there to answer or make her spell work.

Ignoring the 'her', I KNOW that my deities are as real as yours and were there long before yours - your religion is only 2,016 years old, artifacts from mine date back to 25,000 years before the birth of Christ!

There is only one difference between the two, prayer and spell, the dieity invoked.

So long as there are blind fundamentaiists like you on the forum there can be no 'discussion' on any matter relating to religion.

[Leonard James]

I KNOW that my deities are as real as yours...

Neither of you KNOWS anything of the kind. You just believe in them.

[Owlswing]

Neither of you KNOWS anything of the kind. You just believe in them.

That is why I said

I KNOW that my deities are as real as yours

I have said, posting to this forum, more times than I care to count, that I consider my Pagan path to be totally a matter of FAITH! There is no way that I can prove the existence of the deities to whom I call during ritual, any more than Sassy, Vlad, Alan Burns, Hope et al can PROVE the existence of theirs.

But you try getting any one of the innumerable Christians, including but not limited to, those named above, on this forum to admit that and you might just as well try to get Tony Blair to admit that his decision to go to war in Iraq was not only wrong but criminally so! 

[Hope]

But you try getting any one of the innumerable Christians, including but not limited to, those named above, on this forum to admit that and you might just as well try to get Tony Blair to admit that his decision to go to war in Iraq was not only wrong but criminally so!

Good to see your assertion, Owl.  Oddly enough most of the above, and others over the years this forum has been in existence, have made it clear that their faith is just that - faith.  They have then gone on to state, in one way or another, that "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1 AV).  Put another way, this time from the New International Version, faith is "confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see".  Pastor Eugene Peterson puts it this way in his 'Message' version. "The fundamental fact of existence is that this trust in God, this faith, is the firm foundation under everything that makes life worth living. It’s our handle on what we can’t see".

I think I'd go as far as to suggest that, assuming that there is a single way - as many believe there to be - failing to share what one understands to be that way is irresponsible at best.

[Jack Knave]

In everyday English, please, Jack; especially the second sentence.

Well I never, a theist asking me to speak in plain English. Perhaps you should try it with regards your Christian faith.

It is the sublimation of our instincts. You may be horrified to learn that you did not make yourself, you did not choose the body, face or dispositional attitude you have. Neither did you choose your emotional framework or even the way you think - your thoughts and ideas aren't even yours as you did not manifacture yourself. The Unconscious is the seat of our thoughts and ideas etc., and much more, and unlike your God it has a phenomenology we can observe as in dreams and mental conditions. Your God is a contrivance of the Unconscious, a pale representation of the true phenomena of our deeper natures.

[Jack Knave]

This thread demonstrates ad state of this forum.

46 vierws (as at the time of posting) and only four responses. What are the views of the other 42 viewers? And why have they not posted them? Even if only to ask "Who cares?"

That figure is most on line in the day and most of those are guests and so can't post in that format. The actual number that are signed in is often no more than around 5.

[Nearly Sane]

That figure is most on line in the day and most of those are guests and so can't post in that format. The actual number that are signed in is often no more than around 5.

No, that's a separate figure. Each thread has a cumulative total of views beside it where the total responses to it are listed.

[Jack Knave]

Perhaps they weren't born with a silver wand in their hand...

Or perhaps silver bells on a string!

[Sassy]

You are truly blind!

Ignoring the 'her', I KNOW that my deities are as real as yours and were there long before yours - your religion is only 2,016 years old, artifacts from mine date back to 25,000 years before the birth of Christ!

There is only one difference between the two, prayer and spell, the dieity invoked.

So long as there are blind fundamentaiists like you on the forum there can be no 'discussion' on any matter relating to religion.

When you don't succeed you try moving the goal post to useless arguments which are not true.
You know nothing about any deities even your own.
What is the truth is that when you don't like the answers and you cannot bring anything new to the table to disprove them... you resort to the above..

No one is blind just you trying to stir things up and having nothing but a spoon to do it with.

MY God gives answers yours simply has never had any.

[Bubbles]

Again you have answered a question that I did not ask!

Let me put it more simply!

What is the difference between a Christian in church service saying:

"Dear God, I/we humbly ask that you give Mr/Mrs X relief from the pain of the cancer from which she is suffering. Amen"

. . . and a Pagan/Witch in ritual circle saying:

Goddess Brigid, we request that you use your power of healing to lessen the pain that Mr/Mrs X is suffering due to the cancer that she has."

Now will you please answer the question that is being asked, as both the Christian and the Pagan/Witch have the same expectation that their deity will do as they ask.

One difference I have often heard said, is that a prayer is asking God respectfully whereas a spell is more about trying to influence events yourself.

That with Christianity a successful outcome is credited to God, but with Paganism it is the caster of the spell who is powerful.

I heard that the difference is that spells are credited to the caster.

Now this may not be true, and I don't see it always is, but some magic spells, by say a witch doctor does seem to be credited to him, rather than a deity.

Paganism is difficult to generalise about because it's so varied, but I'd be interested in your response Owlswing.

Do you think spells are more egotistical than prayers?

Your OP says  Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer

It doesn't seem to include Pagan prayer  unless you class a spell as a prayer.



🌹