Author Topic: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer  (Read 37499 times)

Sassy

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2016, 04:18:41 PM »
One last answer - you have proved nothing. You have made assertions, you have stated your beliefs, but you have proved nothing and can prove nothing.

To put it bluntly you are full of piss and wind and throw your toys out of your pram the second anyone has the temerity to question your so-called truth and more and more people are rejecting your so-called truth and turning to other beliefs from atheism to paganism and all stations in between and that really ticks you off and long may it continue to do so.

I have shown and you have proved that you have no answer when asked about the "Natural powers of the WORLD" you claim witches use.
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Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2016, 08:18:17 AM »
I have shown and you have proved that you have no answer when asked about the "Natural powers of the WORLD" you claim witches use.

Sassy

Natural powers of the world could be anything you could use to change an outcome or make a difference.

Plants can be a natural power in the world if they can be turned into medicine which cures someone.

If you want to see the "Natural powers in the world" you need to see through new eyes, IMO.

Even the most mundane thing can be " the natural powers in the world" if you open your eyes.

I don't know how Owlswing sees it, but something as simple as  the trickling sound of a stream can calm your mood. It can bring about a change.


Perhaps some Pagans want to use what is mainly perceived as mundane things, to bring about a change in some way.

Perhaps they see the things you see as " ordinary",  they see as extraordinary.

They see the extraordinary in things you dismiss, as ordinary.

That's why you don't see it, IMO.

They want to use this, in some way, to intereact with it, to bring about a change.

Natural things, changing things.

Or I could be totally wrong? Owlswing?

 


« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 08:21:55 AM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2016, 09:02:29 AM »
I have come across Wicca before as a child, my best friends dad was a member of a coven and her Grandmother was a witch.

I don't think it was typical though. Probably Covens vary. I know it was Wicca because they specifically said so.
It was all terribly secret at the time, and the family in question considered themselves very much middle class, and couldn't afford the effect on their reputation, if people knew.

A magazine her Dad edited had a letters page where two blokes argued about who deflowered the most virgins so was most powerful.

I was about eight when I read that, and asked my mother what a virgin was.

My friends Dad used to give me the magazines to read, most of it was sharing stuff, like making shapes in the dirt etc. ( magical patterns)

But I remember the bit about deflowering virgins, so I think there are some dodgy people hanging around Wicca.

I don't think Owlswing or any other Pagan/Wiccan is into that btw. ( but I think like most religions it draws certain types of nutters)

I was always warned by my friends parents to be careful though, which indicated to me some people were not so nice.


« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 09:40:46 AM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #78 on: October 03, 2016, 09:22:27 AM »
it didn't create the most positive impression of Wicca because grandma went to live with the family when she got old, both my friends parents were in the medical profession looking after geriatrics and the old lady chose to die in their house without any form of pain killers and it took a terrible toll on my friend to have her grandmother screaming in pain and asking to be bumped off. ( we must have been about 10)

When she did finally die, I think her DAd got told off, by his superiors, but it was the old ladies wish as she didn't believe in hospitals or conventional medicines. ( it caused some questions to be asked in higher places)

My friend used to come round to me sometimes, because the suffering of her grandmother was too much.

Of course all the Wicca stuff was very secret and not many people knew about it.

It's my only contact with it, although I can see that much of it is harmless.

My negative impression of Wicca doesn't originate from Christianity, it comes from my experience of knowing a family into it, from about the age of seven.

I had an even more negative opinion of Christianity, which caused far more damaging effects on others too. IMO.

I was lucky in that my parents weren't religious at all,  and I could talk to my mother about anything.

Looking back, I think grandma dying at home like that, was a very unhealthy experience for any child.

Grandma was a witch that didn't believe in conventional medicines.

Ive read about the air earth fire water bits, but the greatest impressions were created by the things I encountered.

What I encountered wasn't all good, and it had nothing to do with Devils or demons Satan or Christianity.

I think there are probably aspects of any religion that are best avoided, it's not just Wicca.

I do try to see the positive aspects of a religion that respects nature etc.

Most of the time, I succeed, but now and again I think about the things I came across and then I see there are elements there ( like most religions) that are best avoided.


The moral of my story is most religions have areas that are not so nice, that includes Wicca.


Still back to the positive.

I have no issue with the idea of respecting and revering nature.



« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 09:45:47 AM by Rose »

Owlswing

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #79 on: October 03, 2016, 10:53:21 AM »
Sassy

Natural powers of the world could be anything you could use to change an outcome or make a difference.

Plants can be a natural power in the world if they can be turned into medicine which cures someone.

If you want to see the "Natural powers in the world" you need to see through new eyes, IMO.

Even the most mundane thing can be " the natural powers in the world" if you open your eyes.

I don't know how Owlswing sees it, but something as simple as  the trickling sound of a stream can calm your mood. It can bring about a change.


Perhaps some Pagans want to use what is mainly perceived as mundane things, to bring about a change in some way.

Perhaps they see the things you see as " ordinary",  they see as extraordinary.

They see the extraordinary in things you dismiss, as ordinary.

That's why you don't see it, IMO.

They want to use this, in some way, to intereact with it, to bring about a change.

Natural things, changing things.

Or I could be totally wrong? Owlswing?

You re not wrong, and certainly not totally wrong.

For someone who is stressed the sound of a breeze in the leaves and th sound of birdsong can effect a change. The spell would be to request (prayer to a Christian) that the deity help the stressed person to hear those calming sounds through the noise of their stress.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #80 on: October 03, 2016, 10:57:48 AM »
You re not wrong, and certainly not totally wrong.

For someone who is stressed the sound of a breeze in the leaves and th sound of birdsong can effect a change. The spell would be to request (prayer to a Christian) that the deity help the stressed person to hear those calming sounds through the noise of their stress.

i have no issue with that at all Owlswing, it sounds very nice.

 :)


Owlswing

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2016, 11:14:44 AM »

it didn't create the most positive impression of Wicca because grandma went to live with the family when she got old, both my friends parents were in the medical profession looking after geriatrics and the old lady chose to die in their house without any form of pain killers and it took a terrible toll on my friend to have her grandmother screaming in pain and asking to be bumped off. ( we must have been about 10)

When she did finally die, I think her DAd got told off, by his superiors, but it was the old ladies wish as she didn't believe in hospitals or conventional medicines. ( it caused some questions to be asked in higher places)

My friend used to come round to me sometimes, because the suffering of her grandmother was too much.

Of course all the Wicca stuff was very secret and not many people knew about it.

It's my only contact with it, although I can see that much of it is harmless.

My negative impression of Wicca doesn't originate from Christianity, it comes from my experience of knowing a family into it, from about the age of seven.

I had an even more negative opinion of Christianity, which caused far more damaging effects on others too. IMO.

I was lucky in that my parents weren't religious at all,  and I could talk to my mother about anything.

Looking back, I think grandma dying at home like that, was a very unhealthy experience for any child.

Grandma was a witch that didn't believe in conventional medicines.

Ive read about the air earth fire water bits, but the greatest impressions were created by the things I encountered.

What I encountered wasn't all good, and it had nothing to do with Devils or demons Satan or Christianity.

I think there are probably aspects of any religion that are best avoided, it's not just Wicca.

I do try to see the positive aspects of a religion that respects nature etc.

Most of the time, I succeed, but now and again I think about the things I came across and then I see there are elements there ( like most religions) that are best avoided.


The moral of my story is most religions have areas that are not so nice, that includes Wicca.


Still back to the positive.

I have no issue with the idea of respecting and revering nature.

One of the problems with Wicca is that it is only one of the many Pagan belief paths and there are many different paths that branch off from the original main path of modern Paganism which is usually referred to, by Pagans/witches, as 'Hard Gard'.

The 'Gard' is an abbreviation of Gardner, as in Gerald B Gardner, the founder of modern Wicca. A 'Hard Gard' is one who sticks rigidly and without deviation of any sort to the rules of Wicca as laid down in Gardner's Book of Shadows, a kind of diary of everything that a Coven does ritually and magically and which each new member of a Coven will be required to copy, by hand and in full, upon their initition into the Coven, - Gardnerians do not recognise any form of non-Coven paganism/witchcraft as being REAL pagnism/witchcraft and have tried very hard to prevent any who are not members of a Gradnerian Coven referring to themselves as Wiccans. They have failed miserably.   

I have no idea which form of Wicca your grandmother espoused but it does not, from the information that you give, sound as if it were any form of Gardnerian (no, I am not Gardnerian), but there are groups and individuals who call themselves Wiccans that follow the rejection of orthodox medicine path. Most of the Pagans/witches that I have worked with will only intervene when orthodox medicine has stated 'there is nothing more we can do' for the patient.   
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2016, 11:24:18 AM »
I have come across Wicca before as a child, my best friends dad was a member of a coven and her Grandmother was a witch.

I don't think it was typical though. Probably Covens vary. I know it was Wicca because they specifically said so.
It was all terribly secret at the time, and the family in question considered themselves very much middle class, and couldn't afford the effect on their reputation, if people knew.

A magazine her Dad edited had a letters page where two blokes argued about who deflowered the most virgins so was most powerful.

I was about eight when I read that, and asked my mother what a virgin was.

My friends Dad used to give me the magazines to read, most of it was sharing stuff, like making shapes in the dirt etc. ( magical patterns)

But I remember the bit about deflowering virgins, so I think there are some dodgy people hanging around Wicca.

I don't think Owlswing or any other Pagan/Wiccan is into that btw. ( but I think like most religions it draws certain types of nutters)

I was always warned by my friends parents to be careful though, which indicated to me some people were not so nice.

Sorry, Rose I missed this part of your story.

I do not know what kind of Coven your friend's father was a member of but it WAS NOT WICCAN!

In fact, it was, quite obviously, one of the Covens that caused Covens of real Pagans/witches to refuse membership to any person under the age of 18 for some and 21 for others.

The Pagan Federation recommends that any female who is told that having sex with any male member or members of a Coven is part of being a Coven witch should, one, run fast and run far and two, report the entire matter in s much detail as possible, to the police and the Pagan Federation.

Is it really any wonder that Sassy et al regard and treat Pagans and witches as they do when there are such people around who call themselves pagan and witch!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #83 on: October 03, 2016, 11:44:37 AM »
One of the problems with Wicca is that it is only one of the many Pagan belief paths and there are many different paths that branch off from the original main path of modern Paganism which is usually referred to, by Pagans/witches, as 'Hard Gard'.

The 'Gard' is an abbreviation of Gardner, as in Gerald B Gardner, the founder of modern Wicca. A 'Hard Gard' is one who sticks rigidly and without deviation of any sort to the rules of Wicca as laid down in Gardner's Book of Shadows, a kind of diary of everything that a Coven does ritually and magically and which each new member of a Coven will be required to copy, by hand and in full, upon their initition into the Coven, - Gardnerians do not recognise any form of non-Coven paganism/witchcraft as being REAL pagnism/witchcraft and have tried very hard to prevent any who are not members of a Gradnerian Coven referring to themselves as Wiccans. They have failed miserably.   

I have no idea which form of Wicca your grandmother espoused but it does not, from the information that you give, sound as if it were any form of Gardnerian (no, I am not Gardnerian), but there are groups and individuals who call themselves Wiccans that follow the rejection of orthodox medicine path. Most of the Pagans/witches that I have worked with will only intervene when orthodox medicine has stated 'there is nothing more we can do' for the patient.   

It was my friends grandmother, Owlswing.

Her Dad couldn't have been against the use of conventional medicine because he was a matron at a local old peoples home and would have had to dispense them.

Perhaps the Grandmother had leanings to one of the groups you are referring to.

One of the things I do remember was that the Wicca was considered as being historically in the family sort of handed down. ( I was told about the burning times etc)It was hoped my friend would take it up, but she wasn't really into it at that time.

I would have thought the grandmother and earlier would have predated gardnerian wicca although they were very secretive about members in a coven.

I had always assumed all covens had 13 members, so maybe they were. It was also considered bad form to reveal other members of the coven ( I Sussed a couple out, only because my friend Sussed them out, most seemed to have influential middle class jobs)

It's almost like the masons  :)

Most of what was in the booklets went over my head because I was only 7+ when I had them.

I remember the simple things like drawing pictures and patterns in the dirt to create different spells, like symbolic shapes.

Her dad was also heavily into ancient  Eygpt and spoke fluent Arabic.

He also spoke about an odd belief ( to me) that he held that we lived in a dream and we visited the real world when we went to sleep and visited the astral plane and our dreams were distorted memories of that real world.

Not sure how that fits into Wicca, but that was his belief.

They definately saw themselves as wiccans as they told me it meant " craft of the wise'

I don't know if the booklet I read was open to just coven members, it might have had other contributors whose views they tolerated.

Her Dad was the editor of it.


« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 11:55:15 AM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2016, 11:57:11 AM »
Sorry, Rose I missed this part of your story.

I do not know what kind of Coven your friend's father was a member of but it WAS NOT WICCAN!

In fact, it was, quite obviously, one of the Covens that caused Covens of real Pagans/witches to refuse membership to any person under the age of 18 for some and 21 for others.

The Pagan Federation recommends that any female who is told that having sex with any male member or members of a Coven is part of being a Coven witch should, one, run fast and run far and two, report the entire matter in s much detail as possible, to the police and the Pagan Federation.

Is it really any wonder that Sassy et al regard and treat Pagans and witches as they do when there are such people around who call themselves pagan and witch!

I think back in the 60s and 70s people were more tolerant of weird ideas, because they mistakenly thought they were harmless.

I don't think my friends Dad was into anything weird, but maybe people weren't so aware back then.

So they were more tolerant.

Like tolerating the weird ideas Jimmy Saville had, not seeing the dangers.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 11:59:34 AM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2016, 12:05:25 PM »
No one  ever touched me, or my friend ( as far as I know) and we were both warned about unsavoury characters that could exist calling themselves Wiccans.

I just wonder if in the 60's and 70s people tolerated more, ideas wise.

People didn't see abuse back then did they? Not in the same way we do today.

I'm glad to hear Wiccans no longer tolerate weird blokes writing letters in booklets/magazines  about deflowering young girls.

I think back in the 60s and 70s people just laughed and thought it was harmless fantasy.

That's what I suspect.

Owlswing

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #86 on: October 03, 2016, 01:15:26 PM »

It was my friends grandmother, Owlswing.


Sorry for the misquote!

Quote
Her Dad couldn't have been against the use of conventional medicine because he was a matron at a local old peoples home and would have had to dispense them.

Perhaps the Grandmother had leanings to one of the groups you are referring to.

One of the things I do remember was that the Wicca was considered as being historically in the family sort of handed down. ( I was told about the burning times etc)It was hoped my friend would take it up, but she wasn't really into it at that time.

I would have thought the grandmother and earlier would have predated gardnerian wicca although they were very secretive about members in a coven.


Gardner's Wicca began in about 1952 with the repeal of the Witchcraft Acts and their replacement by the Fraudulent Mediums Act, so by the 60s it was reasonably well-established.

There were many Wiccans who claimed historical connections to the Craft and Wicca as one of the things that Gardner claimed for Wicca, something that he picked up from Margaret A Murray, whom he met as they were both members of the Folklore Society of which Murray was President, was her theory that witchcraft had been a religious cult that had existed before the coming of Christianity and had continued to exist, uninterrupted, underground since the coming of Christianity.

The name the Burning Times was/is used to refer to the time between about 1430 and up to about 1750, the time of the witch-craze that was fuelled by the Inquisition. It was so-called because, thanks to Kramer and Spengler and the Malleus Maleficarum, witchcraft had been deemed heresy by dint of the 'fact' that witches made a pact with the Devil t the Sabbat in order to receive their magic powers, and burning at the stake was the punishment under Catholic law for heresy.

Quote
     

I had always assumed all covens had 13 members, so maybe they were. It was also considered bad form to reveal other members of the coven ( I Sussed a couple out, only because my friend Sussed them out, most seemed to have influential middle class jobs)

It's almost like the masons  :)


The Coven of 13 was another of Murray's ideas about witches that Gradner picked up. In fact, there was only one mention of a Coven having 13 members in the, one of very few, voluntary confessions to be a witch by Isobel Gowdie, a Scotswoman in 1662, but Murray, who had a habit of twisting history to fit her theory that was to lead to the rejection of the Murrayite witch-cult theory during the 1970s, decided that ALL Covens of Medieval witched had 13 members.   

Members of a Coven are Oathbound to keep the identities of ALL witches, not just those of their Coven, secret unless the witch makes her being a witch public herself.

Quote

Her Dad also spoke about an odd belief ( to me) that he held that we lived in a dream and we visited the real world when we went to sleep and visited the astral plane and our dreams were distorted memories of that real world.

Not sure how that fits into Wicca, but that was his belief.


This, to my knowledge and belief, has nothing to do with Wicca, so it probably was just a personal belief.

Quote

They definitely saw themselves as wiccans as they told me it meant "craft of the wise'


Wicca and Wicce are Old English and thought variously to mean 'wise man' and 'wise woman' respectively or 'male witch' and 'female witch' respectively, and thus 'Witchcraft' is taken to mean 'the craft of the wise'.

Incidentally, today both female and male witches call themselves witch - you are only a wizard if you are Merlin or a denizen of the J K Rowling novels. 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #87 on: October 03, 2016, 02:57:34 PM »
Very interesting, thanks Owlswing.

 :)

Sassy

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #88 on: October 03, 2016, 03:06:43 PM »
Sassy

Natural powers of the world could be anything you could use to change an outcome or make a difference.

Plants can be a natural power in the world if they can be turned into medicine which cures someone.

If you want to see the "Natural powers in the world" you need to see through new eyes, IMO.

Even the most mundane thing can be " the natural powers in the world" if you open your eyes.

I don't know how Owlswing sees it, but something as simple as  the trickling sound of a stream can calm your mood. It can bring about a change.


Perhaps some Pagans want to use what is mainly perceived as mundane things, to bring about a change in some way.

Perhaps they see the things you see as " ordinary",  they see as extraordinary.

They see the extraordinary in things you dismiss, as ordinary.

That's why you don't see it, IMO.

They want to use this, in some way, to intereact with it, to bring about a change.

Natural things, changing things.

Or I could be totally wrong? Owlswing?

Read post 53.

There beliefs being in the forces of nature and I have shown the elements to be not what he is talking about.I know exactly what there beliefs and SPELLS are based on. But he  has not answered the relevant question because he got it wrong.

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Aruntraveller

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #89 on: October 03, 2016, 03:13:23 PM »
Quote
when he said God's spiritual waters can reach areas in the body quenching those desparate thirsts where no other refreshment can reach...

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Heineken?
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2016, 03:28:43 PM »
Are you sure you aren't thinking of Heineken?

I remember that

https://youtu.be/ab6dJYDgj48

 :)

Owlswing

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2016, 03:28:54 PM »

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Heineken?


. . . or not thinking at all?
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

jeremyp

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #92 on: October 04, 2016, 12:28:14 AM »
Is that bad eggs...The truth is God answering prayers has nothing to do with 'arrogance''
No the arrogance is in you - believing that you have the correct religion when the evidence is as strong for pagan religions as it is for yours.

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Sassy

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #93 on: October 04, 2016, 01:47:11 AM »
No the arrogance is in you - believing that you have the correct religion when the evidence is as strong for pagan religions as it is for yours.
Want to make your mind up.  Thought you could not find any verifiable evidence....
There is no evidence for pagan religion.
Now you really are displaying arrogance. Because you assume that Christianity is the same as Paganism. The fact is the Christian worships the creator God and the pagan worships the creation.

Appears your bias is showing and what is more astounding is you believing that paganism is the same as atheism. But neither believe in anything substantial for neither has cause for the beliefs.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Aruntraveller

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #94 on: October 04, 2016, 08:27:57 AM »
Quote
But neither believe in anything substantial for neither has cause for the beliefs.

Oh heck. None so blind.

If you argue that against paganism then the self same argument can be made against Christianity - there is no cause for your beliefs. Or if you claim there is, what about all the other religions that worship Gods. On what grounds do you negate them.

Actually I would argue there is substantially more that can be argued for paganism as a religion by way of proof - but that is a side issue and I still think that paganism is not true for me.

That being said they don't generally come out with the half cocked arguments and circular reasoning that dominate your posts.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Owlswing

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #95 on: October 04, 2016, 08:59:48 AM »

. . . I still think that paganism is not true for me.

That being said they don't generally come out with the half cocked arguments and circular reasoning that dominate your posts.


That is one of the main differences between Paganism and Christianity, we do NOT proselytise, partly because we do NOT believe that Paganism is for everyone; we DO believe that everyone should be allowed to find their own belief from anywhere along the scale from no belief to absolute belief without having it rammed down their throat virtually from the day that they are born.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Bubbles

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #96 on: October 04, 2016, 10:06:06 AM »
Want to make your mind up.  Thought you could not find any verifiable evidence....
There is no evidence for pagan religion.
Now you really are displaying arrogance. Because you assume that Christianity is the same as Paganism. The fact is the Christian worships the creator God and the pagan worships the creation.

Appears your bias is showing and what is more astounding is you believing that paganism is the same as atheism. But neither believe in anything substantial for neither has cause for the beliefs.

The evidence for the Pagan religion is found in nature and in personal experience IMO..

Christianity only has the bible, and personal experience.

Nothing else.

So they are comparable, but Paganism can at least show you nature and the seasons which do exist.

We can all see them.

Paganism based in nature, is something we can all relate to, even if beliefs differ.

You have Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter each season is unique you have planting time and harvest time.

Then there is the moon and the tides, things we can all see and measure.


All Christianity has is a book written by people, and personal experience of believears.

In Christianity you have to be told what to believe, from a book with hundreds of different interpretations, from a time and culture very different from our own.

In Paganism ( it seems to me anyway) the basic structure of nature is there for us all to see, and it's up to you to find out and grow your own opinions from experiencing it.

Someone's  experience is going to be different with nature depending on where they live, so in the land of the midnight sun it's going to be different to say somewhere nearer the equator.

Different places have different cycles ( in the Canary Islands the moon crescent looks the wrong way up)

Just my impressions  :)

Look at the moon in the picture.

http://twanight.org/newTWAN/photos.asp?ID=3003358

 ;)

No wonder Paganism is so different in its way of seeing things, because the planet is so varied.



« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 10:10:35 AM by Rose »

Shaker

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2016, 12:21:59 PM »
No wonder Paganism is so different in its way of seeing things, because the planet is so varied.
Not only that but it is an admitted and even celebrated fact that there are almost infinitely many paths which you can choose ... or rather, which can choose you. There's no central authority figure (a pope, etc.) and no central authority organisation handing down what you must believe.

Owlswing's knowledge displayed on this thread has been fascinating to read, btw.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 12:24:21 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sassy

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #98 on: January 02, 2017, 10:04:17 AM »
That is one of the main differences between Paganism and Christianity, we do NOT proselytise, partly because we do NOT believe that Paganism is for everyone; we DO believe that everyone should be allowed to find their own belief from anywhere along the scale from no belief to absolute belief without having it rammed down their throat virtually from the day that they are born.

So why the thread? Rather antagonistic to start a witch/pagan spell vs Christian Prayer.
Everyone can and does find their own belief whether pagan or atheist. As all come under Pagan if not a Jew or Christian then I am not sure how fair you want it to be, you cannot get fairer than that.

Jesus Christ and even the Jews before him performed miracles. But paganism has had nothing and no one one with success when it comes to actions and spells working for healing. Take a look at 1 kings 18.

 37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.

38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.


It is today as it has always been. Baal and his followers insulting the God who made them and worshiping the things God made.
Why if not ramming your beliefs down others throats have you written this thread? Why is it you have no confidence in your beliefs? In truth there is nothing you can do to change mans hearts about God and Jesus Christ once they are truly living according to the power of God.

Writing this thread shows you do ram it down peoples throats and attack the Christian Faith.
Personally, the Christians have a history where their God acted. The world and followers of Baal still waiting for Baal to do something.

Christian Prayer will win every time when it come competing with witch/pagan spell VS Christian prayer.

Christian prayer does not ram anything down anyones throat. It is said for people by believers who care about the wellbeing of others. It is never a competition because as Elisha taught us. Gods will is always done in the end. Because he exists...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Anchorman

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Re: Witch/Pagan spell vs Christian prayer
« Reply #99 on: January 02, 2017, 10:28:31 AM »
     As a wee aside, the mention of Margaret Murray set a few bells ringing - and teeth on edge! When I was studying Egyptology for my degree, one of the recommended authors was Murray - as an example of the Victorian romantic promotion of the available facts to fit the ideas, rather than vice versa. I do not wish to intrude on the topic, but the strange fixation on Egypt by certain individuals has always fascinated me - the 'pyramidiots', the pseudochristians like Smith and Russell - and, in a category of her own, the mysterious - intriguing 'Omm Sety', who died relatively recently in 1980 - an enigma if ever there was one. Possibly the lure of the exotic and Victorian mysticism clouded the issue, but many historians of their day did much to entrench a mindset of Egyptian studies which remains a minefield to this day. (Don't even start me on Zahi Hawass......it's early in the year.)
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."