Turing law

[Nearly Sane]

I would consider it would be 'better' if a more worthy bill failed rather than a lot of time be wasted on a pointless bill.

So you have no idea of any bill that might get passed, or even  what the others bills are,  and you consider this 'pointless' even though you haven't ever talked to anyone that might be affected by it.

[L.A.]

So you have no idea of any bill that might get passed, or even  what the others bills are,  and you consider this 'pointless' even though you haven't ever talked to anyone that might be affected by it.

I think that was rather the point that I started off by making - i.e. it's better not to waste time on futile gestures

[Nearly Sane]

I think that was rather the point that I started off by making - i.e. it's better not to waste time on futile gestures

Yes, and you defined futile by not knowing anything about those affected, even making a rather ill informed guess, and gave been unable to suggest any bill that might get passed.

[L.A.]

Yes, and you defined futile by not knowing anything about those affected, even making a rather ill informed guess, and gave been unable to suggest any bill that might get passed.

I feel that we are going round in circles. I've given my response and my reasoning - if you don't like it - tough!

[Nearly Sane]

I feel that we are going round in circles. I've given my response and my reasoning - if you don't like it - tough!

And when picked up on what you have said, you have just ignored it and given no answers. We are going round in circles because you think assertion without knowledge is reasoning.

[Hope]

But does it actually change reality?  Over the years, the law has held a variety of activities to be illegal, which it now deems legal.

Rather than this attempt at piecemeal reparation, which we are so accustomed to, isn't it time an MP or MPs developed an all-enveloping Bill that will cover more than just a single bit of legislation. 

[Humph Warden Bennett]

No it isn't. It's an attempt to acknowledge that mistakes were made in the past and to try to rectify them as far as possible.

In that case why not campaign for Turing to be pardoned for committing suicide? That was a crime until 1961.

[Nearly Sane]

In that case why not campaign for Turing to be pardoned for committing suicide? That was a crime until 1961.

Was he charged with it? Note he's already been pardoned for the homosexuality, that isn't the point of the Private Members Bill.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

So are we going to have another private members bill, asking for backstreet abortionists to be pardoned?

[Nearly Sane]

So are we going to have another private members bill, asking for backstreet abortionists to be pardoned?

Perhaps, is that at all related to this bill?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

My point is that if we rewrite history once, we will be rewriting it time and time again. Let the past be as it was.

[Nearly Sane]

My point is that if we rewrite history once, we will be rewriting it time and time again. Let the past be as it was.

Already been done, as already pointed out. And this isn't rewriting history, it's just an attempt to make some people feel a bit better about themselves or their loved ones. The past is as it was. This is about some people now

[jeremyp]

In that case why not campaign for Turing to be pardoned for committing suicide? That was a crime until 1961.

He was never convicted of it. You can't pardon somebody for a conviction that never happened.

[jeremyp]

My point is that if we rewrite history once, we will be rewriting it time and time again. Let the past be as it was.

My point is that this does not constitute rewriting history.

[Owlswing]

From today's Metro:

Posthumous pardons for gay men

Thousands of gay and bisexual men convicted of consensual same-sex relationships before laws were changed are to be posthumously pardoned.

The move follows World War II code-breaker Alan Turing's posthumous royal pardon in 2013 for a gross indecency charge in 1952.

Justice Minister Sam Gyimah said the pardons are "hugely important".

[floo]

It is criminal that engaging in homosexual activity was ever illegal!

[ProfessorDavey]

My point is that if we rewrite history once, we will be rewriting it time and time again. Let the past be as it was.

It isn't rewriting history - that would be to claim that those individuals were never charged and convicted at the time. It is righting a wrong, pardoning them, which is different to implying they weren't convicted in the first place. So in a way it is the opposite of rewriting history as, by definition we are clearly acknowledging what happened in the past and trying, in a small way, to make reparation for the wrong committed.

[Owlswing]

It isn't rewriting history - that would be to claim that those individuals were never charged and convicted at the time. It is righting a wrong, pardoning them, which is different to implying they weren't convicted in the first place. So in a way it is the opposite of rewriting history as, by definition we are clearly acknowledging what happened in the past and trying, in a small way, to make reparation for the wrong committed.

It is just a shame that so few of these "convicts" have lived to see this day!

[ProfessorDavey]

It is just a shame that so few of these "convicts" have lived to see this day!

Indeed - and although this is, of course, a positive thing I'd like to see more being done now to ensure equality for gay people and the law to be strengthened and enforced to prevent discrimination against gay people, which is still prevalent in society and also institutionalised within some organisations (shamefully within the law in some cases).

[Owlswing]

Indeed - and although this is, of course, a positive thing I'd like to see more being done now to ensure equality for gay people and the law to be strengthened and enforced to prevent discrimination against gay people, which is still prevalent in society and also institutionalised within some organisations (shamefully within the law in some cases).

Is this situation, as it stands today, proof that God does indeed hate fags? Or is it that fag-haters just like to think that he does?

[Nearly Sane]

Link to John Nicolson's speech proposing his bill this morning


http://tinyurl.com/hz23847

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=06WiC5F8UJQ&feature=share

[Nearly Sane]

Found the debate very moving, particularly Chris Bryant's speech and the staunch support of a number of Tories for the bill against the govt line. Shocking that people were still being arrested for importuning up to the 2000s

[Nearly Sane]

Bill talked out by Govt that had promised support and no tricks

[Owlswing]

Bill talked out by Govt that had promised support and no tricks

Bastards!

[Nearly Sane]

Bstards!

they have an amendment in the latest police bill proposed but it needs people to apply to get the prosecutions wiped off. The sensible way would have been to pass the bill and look at changing it in committee but politics got in way