Author Topic: Which century are we in?  (Read 7392 times)

Sebastian Toe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7719
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2016, 09:29:45 PM »
Owlswing. OP title: Which century are we in?

Do you really think that because we are living in the 21st century, the spiritual realm has ceased to exist?
What makes you think it ever started in the first place?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2016, 09:31:34 PM »
What makes you think it ever started in the first place?
Do you think it wore off before it got on stage?

Sebastian Toe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7719
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2016, 11:07:16 PM »
Do you think it wore off before it got on stage?
Probably.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

floo

  • Guest
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2016, 03:38:12 PM »
It is bad enough when adults are believed to be possessed by mythical demons and exorcised, but even worse when children are subjected to cruel exorcism. I believe children have died as a result. That tragic little girl, Victoria Climbie was subjected to an exorcism by the church her evil aunt and partner attended, not long before they killed her!

Brownie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3858
  • Faith evolves
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2016, 04:19:39 PM »
So horrible, really scary and such things still go on in many cultures.

Someone said earlier that "Demon" is just a word and though it has certain connotations, it is often used nowadays in common parlance, eg,  "I must face my demons", which doesn't mean anything supernatural.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8253
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2016, 04:40:32 PM »
So horrible, really scary and such things still go on in many cultures.

Someone said earlier that "Demon" is just a word and though it has certain connotations, it is often used nowadays in common parlance, eg,  "I must face my demons", which doesn't mean anything supernatural.


Many atheists are constantly fighting biblical demons, for example!   ;)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 04:44:05 PM by Sriram »

Brownie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3858
  • Faith evolves
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2016, 04:43:10 PM »
Indeed  ;), then there is "the Daemon Drinke".
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2016, 05:32:25 PM »
It is bad enough when adults are believed to be possessed by mythical demons and exorcised, but even worse when children are subjected to cruel exorcism. I believe children have died as a result. That tragic little girl, Victoria Climbie was subjected to an exorcism by the church her evil aunt and partner attended, not long before they killed her!
And it is bad enough when children are stopped from learning about every aspect of humanity, be that the potential existence of a deity or the potential non-existence of such a being.   As for VC, the main aspects of the subsequent inquiry had to do with the poor quality of the social care providers who had contact with her and the family.  Whilst I do recall the mention of an exorcism, it doesn't take a major part in the report, nor does it explain the abuse that VC seems to have had to put up with over a long period of time.

Perhaps more telling than anything is the fact that the inquiry found many similarities to a host of previous child abuse cases - dating back 30 years to that of Maria Calwell.  The figures of child abuse had remaned pretty well static over that 30-year period.  Are you blaming a possible exorcism for all that?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

floo

  • Guest
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2016, 05:53:54 PM »
And it is bad enough when children are stopped from learning about every aspect of humanity, be that the potential existence of a deity or the potential non-existence of such a being.   As for VC, the main aspects of the subsequent inquiry had to do with the poor quality of the social care providers who had contact with her and the family.  Whilst I do recall the mention of an exorcism, it doesn't take a major part in the report, nor does it explain the abuse that VC seems to have had to put up with over a long period of time.

Perhaps more telling than anything is the fact that the inquiry found many similarities to a host of previous child abuse cases - dating back 30 years to that of Maria Calwell.  The figures of child abuse had remaned pretty well static over that 30-year period.  Are you blaming a possible exorcism for all that?

Subjecting a child to an exorcism is WRONG. I believe it is fairly common in the US! It should  be deemed child abuse and the perpetrators prosecuted.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 05:56:33 PM by Floo »

floo

  • Guest
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2016, 06:01:46 PM »
Subjecting a child to an exorcism is WRONG. I believe it is fairly common in the US! It should  be deemed child abuse and the perpetrators prosecuted.

My cousin was told a by another relative, a fundie Christian, his mental illness was caused by demons, he was so distressed he tried to kill himself!

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6945
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2016, 06:22:11 PM »

Subjecting a child to an exorcism is WRONG. I believe it is fairly common in the US! It should  be deemed child abuse and the perpetrators prosecuted.


It is also quite common among the people of sub-Saharan Africa - this why quite a few people think that a witch-doctor is the same as a Western witch.

The problem is, as Hope should realise, is that in quite a few cases the idea of possession came to these people of Africa via the Christian missionaries AS DID THE PROCESS OF EXORCISM!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2016, 08:26:33 PM »
It is also quite common among the people of sub-Saharan Africa - this why quite a few people think that a witch-doctor is the same as a Western witch.

The problem is, as Hope should realise, is that in quite a few cases the idea of possession came to these people of Africa via the Christian missionaries AS DID THE PROCESS OF EXORCISM!

I'm sure they meant well, and didn't realise the fearful damage they were doing. Let us hope that enlightenment will spread throughout the world.

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6945
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2016, 06:36:27 AM »

I'm sure they meant well, and didn't realise the fearful damage they were doing. Let us hope that enlightenment will spread throughout the world.


The cases of Victoria Climbie and the dismembered little boy found, I think, in the Thames, shows that enlightenment is, if it is spreading at all, is doing so far too slowly.

The fact that this twerp, Pat Robertson, is still promoting this evil in the name of Christ is a stain on even moderate Christianity and Christians who are amazingly silent in the matter of shutting the twat up!

 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

floo

  • Guest
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2016, 09:01:39 AM »
The cases of Victoria Climbie and the dismembered little boy found, I think, in the Thames, shows that enlightenment is, if it is spreading at all, is doing so far too slowly.

The fact that this twerp, Pat Robertson, is still promoting this evil in the name of Christ is a stain on even moderate Christianity and Christians who are amazingly silent in the matter of shutting the twat up!

Robertson needs locking up he is evil as he encourages his followers to be abusive!!!

Sebastian Toe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7719
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2016, 02:18:56 PM »
Robertson needs locking up he is evil as he encourages his followers to be abusive!!!
Nah, someone just needs to beat some good proper Christian sense into him!  :o
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5811
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2016, 02:26:48 PM »
Nah, someone just needs to beat some good proper Christian sense into him!  :o
.... the scientific, accurate, righteous and electrifying teachings of Jesus, otherwise it's Wormwood Scrubs for him.

Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2016, 02:36:56 PM »
The mind and the sense of reality can be a scary thing.

When someone loses touch with the things we tend to regard as real and behaves strangely, it tends to be quite a scary time for their friends and relatives.

You don't know how to reach them.

When it's someone you are close too, it's scary.

People then look to find answers, because they can't see a rational one.

The rationality of the person concerned doesn't seem to exist, in the same sense.

Today we look to drugs and psychiatry, years ago they looked to religion.


Seeing it as demonic possession helped them rationalise the scary irrational person someone had become.

It's still disturbing to see someone you know who is normally rational,  leave it behind.

It's the same sort of thing with dementia, losing a part of a person, it's scary.

We know more about these things now, but I suppose some people still look for an outside influence that they believe can be cured by getting rid of it.

It is quite scary to find that someone whose judgement you trusted, can no longer be relied on.


That it is them that has changed, not something from outside.


Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2016, 02:52:34 PM »
Reading the link in the OP, I guess it's even more scary for the people who are suffering with it, especially if the feel the drugs arn't helping.

If you find the voices in your head scary no amount of rationalising will help, because to people that hear them they are real, even though you tell them no one else is hearing them.

Unable to believe it originates in their own mind, they seek help from other sources when the drugs don't help.

The priests are only trying to help within their own belief system.

The problem I've found, is that a person who hears voices can't seem to rationalise that the voices arn't real, because they can hear them, like you hear things.

It's like you being told that what you are hearing seeing and feeling isn't real, it's upsetting And some cannot accept its not real.

It's cogantive dissonance, they hear it, it can't be their imagination therefore it must be an outside source.

Some might go to priests because if the drugs don't help, they feel the voices are real and the priest tells them they are right, and he can take them away.

Perhaps they find that better than thinking they are wrong and they are stuck with it.

It's sad really.


Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8253
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2016, 02:54:53 PM »


Maybe its all something to do with bacteria and the microbiome...!

Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Which century are we in?
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2016, 02:59:37 PM »

Maybe its all something to do with bacteria and the microbiome...!

I don't know, but hopefully science will learn more, so be more effective in helping.