The centre ground

[Anchorman]

Exactly, Gordon. The immigration issue simply exposes the fact that the 'uk' is very far from united. The Westminster government has doen absolutely nothing whatsoever to appese feeling on the subject here, where the three (four if you count the greens) main parties are broadly agreed that we need more immigration, not less. As usual, only the Tories try to toe Westminster's line. This willful disregard of the situation here can only exacerbate the climate of distrust and opposition to a government we did not elect and whose ethos seems diametrically opposed with mainstream Scottish thinking.

[Jack Knave]

Dear Jackie boy,

I agree with you, but that would need a government who invest, invest in people.

Yes! It was this government who made it an issue, they bragged about reducing immigration when they knew they couldn't, but that goes back to your first question, the government forgot to invest in our people, so our people saw those bloody immigrants coming over and taking our houses and jobs, our people needed an outlet for their anger and our government was quite happy to allow that to happen, now it has come back to bite them on the bottom, they reap what they sow.

Tory fiasco from start to finish.

Gonnagle.

Labour are just as guilty as the Tories. both are crap.

[Jack Knave]

Without the immigrants Britain would be up the creek without a paddle. We need incomers to staff the NHS, for instance.

We can train our own.

[Nearly Sane]

We can train our own.

How we we do that with a decreasing population and increasing elderly population? Please explain what your approach would be to the demographic squeeze.

[Jack Knave]

Glad to hear you given up that it was the load of nonsense about sovereignty.

The fact still remains that one of the drivers for workers coming in from the EU was the lack of indigenous people who were prepared to get out and work in jobs that they didn't want to do. So we either pay more in the fields, factories etc. and therefore propel inflation even higher than it is already set to become due to the devaluation of the pound - or we stop producing things and import them therefore propelling inflation even highe. At that point it becomes a lose-lose scenario.

Or we could just be sensible and allow workers from the EU to come here and do the jobs that UKIP supporters are too lazy to get off their arses to do.

And what about jobs like nurses and doctors, why can't we train our people to do these professional careers and not import so many foreigners? And stop being a parasite on the world.

[Nearly Sane]

And what about jobs like nurses and doctors, why can't we train our people to do these professional careers and not import so many foreigners? And stop being a parasite on the world.

We also export quite a lot of the above, and train quote a lot of people from abroad. Are you wanting to stop emigration as well?

[Jack Knave]

one reason would have been demographics. If you have an increasingly elderly population, there simply wouldn't be the number to staff the NHS, remembering that any staff trained here can and do move abroad as well. Further we don't just train 'our own folk' here but also many from elsewhere.  If we were being a net exporter of training but importing staff from places where the demographic squezzes was not happening then it does not leave them 'bereft' rather is advantageous for both.

We have over a million unemployed, where is the shortage?

[Nearly Sane]

We have over a million unemployed, where is the shortage?

many of whom are too old to he retrained into the health service, some of whom are not suitable.

[Jack Knave]

Exactly, Gordon. The immigration issue simply exposes the fact that the 'uk' is very far from united. The Westminster government has doen absolutely nothing whatsoever to appese feeling on the subject here, where the three (four if you count the greens) main parties are broadly agreed that we need more immigration, not less. As usual, only the Tories try to toe Westminster's line. This willful disregard of the situation here can only exacerbate the climate of distrust and opposition to a government we did not elect and whose ethos seems diametrically opposed with mainstream Scottish thinking.

We have plenty you can have!!!

[Nearly Sane]

Just to note that currently we are at the highest % of people in work in terms of the records we hold.

http://tinyurl.com/h3nuqox

[Jack Knave]

How we we do that with a decreasing population and increasing elderly population? Please explain what your approach would be to the demographic squeeze.

What part of control didn't you lot understand? We allow in what we need. We have loads unemployed, why weren't these trained up? So what we need means after we have fully utilised our own resources.

[Jack Knave]

We also export quite a lot of the above, and train quote a lot of people from abroad. Are you wanting to stop emigration as well?

Illogical and straw man.

[Nearly Sane]

What part of control didn't you lot understand? We allow in what we need. We have loads unemployed, why weren't these trained up? So what we need means after we have fully utilised our own resources.

Because some of those trained left and demand changes over time and people don't want to admit the issue that was clear with an aging population with a lower birth rate, none of which was ever mentioned by your genius Farage.

To at least some extent govts have tried to do this but when the increase in expenditure came to the front line NHS services you can't magic trained staff.

By the way what happened to your position that taking in what might be needed was parasitical as in a few posts ago?

[Nearly Sane]

Illogical and straw man.

in what way is asking a question of you a strawman? What was the illogic in pointing out facts I.e. that people here emigrate and we also train people from abroad?

[Jack Knave]

many of whom are too old to he retrained into the health service, some of whom are not suitable.

I am also talking about what we should have done years ago.

[Jack Knave]

Just to note that currently we are at the highest % of people in work in terms of the records we hold.

http://tinyurl.com/h3nuqox

Most of those new jobs have been unskilled shit jobs. But that still leaves main who could have been trained up to do professional jobs.

[Jack Knave]

1) Because some of those trained left and demand changes over time and people don't want to admit the issue that was clear with an aging population with a lower birth rate, none of which was ever mentioned by your genius Farage.

2)To at least some extent govts have tried to do this but when the increase in expenditure came to the front line NHS services you can't magic trained staff.

3)By the way what happened to your position that taking in what might be needed was parasitical as in a few posts ago?

1) If you have a free for all immigration policy you can't plan for anything.

2) Not too sure what your point is here. Note: tonnes is being wasted on agency staff.

3) You're a clever chap can't you work it out? There is a difference between 'not bothering' and sponging off the rest and 'bothering' and making up the short fall.

[Jack Knave]

in what way is asking a question of you a strawman? What was the illogic in pointing out facts I.e. that people here emigrate and we also train people from abroad?

Asking stupid questions that a child could answer, and doesn't need asking because any intelligent person can see this is just throwing in shit to muddy the waters. I refuse to waste my time on such pointless points.

[Nearly Sane]

Asking stupid questions that a child could answer, and doesn't need asking because any intelligent person can see this is just throwing in shit to muddy the waters. I refuse to waste my time on such pointless points.

Evasions noted

[jeremyp]

In that case we don't need foreigners!

If you owned a fruit farm, would you rather have unskilled workers that turned up on time every day and put in a good day's work or the people that couldn't get jobs stocking shelves in Tesco?

[Nearly Sane]

If you owned a fruit farm, would you rather have unskilled workers that turned up on time every day and put in a good day's work or the people that couldn't get jobs stocking shelves in Tesco?

No, those are the people that Jack thinks will be doctors and nurses.

[jeremyp]

So I ask again, why can't we train our own instead of sponging off the world?

If you want your organisation to be World class, you need World class people. You can't expect to find enough of those people if you restrict your pool of candidates to the UK.

[jeremyp]

Another wee pointer to why immigration should be devolved. Scotland continues to welcome all, from whatever ethnic minority. We're a Jock Tamsons' bairns. Most of us are baffled by Westminster xenophobia.

Westminster doesn't have xenophobia, it's a small majority of the British people (actually, it's probably not a majority if we accept that some voted for Brexit for reasons other than immigration).

Westminster loves immigrants. If they didn't, they could cut immigration by half tomorrow.

[Jack Knave]

Evasions noted

That's all you've got? You're the advocatus diabli here.

[Nearly Sane]

That's all you've got? You're the advocatus diabli here.

Why thank you, kind sir.

And before anyone jumps up to say it is 'diaboli', my typing is often atrocious so leave the lovely JK alone, with his lovely compliments.