The iniquity of the Catholic church

[Nearly Sane]

Gordon blundered. I have brought this up with him.
He does say that temptation is down to biology. he said that in response to Alan. These things are undeniable Sane.

While you have been playing Igor to the monster chimera Gordon seems to have created. I have tried to get Gordon to move beyond Biologydiddit to get him to say just how temptation works and what the hell it's working on if good and evil do not exist?

No, this again is just you desperately misrepresenting Gordon. BTW I am tempted to have a doughnut now, is that evil?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

as long as you don't get your ya yas out!

LOL with a big side order of ROFL.

[floo]

Gordon blundered. I have brought this up with him.
He does say that temptation is down to biology. he said that in response to Alan. These things are undeniable Sane.

While you have been playing Igor to the monster chimera Gordon seems to have created. I have tried to get Gordon to move beyond Biologydiddit to get him to say just how temptation works and what the hell it's working on if good and evil do not exist?

You can't move beyond biology.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, this again is just you desperately misrepresenting Gordon. BTW I am tempted to have a doughnut now, is that evil?

Non sequiter and red herring. Alan clearly stated what he meant by temptation and Gordon played ball.
Have the doughnut...at least then you will have done one worthwhile thing today................snork.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You can't move beyond biology.

I never said ''Biology''. I said ''Biologydiddit.''

You seem to have moved beyond it by dodging a straight answer to my questions. Do the mind,psyche and consciousness exist....yes or no?

[Nearly Sane]

You can't move beyond biology.

which is the death knell of free will

[Nearly Sane]

Non sequiter and red herring. Alan clearly stated what he meant by temptation and Gordon played ball.
Have the doughnut...at least then you will have done one worthwhile thing today................snork.

Except that only makes sense if you then assume Gordon accepts the existence of Satan as well. Language is not controlled in the fashion you want to dishonestly represent here. Context is important but that context includes Gordon's post itself and his known  views. That you want to ignore that just underlines your attempts at mendacious maundering.

[Gordon]

Gordon blundered. I have brought this up with him.
He does say that temptation is down to biology. he said that in response to Alan. These things are undeniable Sane.

No Vlad: I've described 'temptation' as a form of subjective thinking, and that thinking involves functioning biology.

While you have been playing Igor to the monster chimera Gordon seems to have created. I have tried to get Gordon to move beyond Biologydiddit to get him to say just how temptation works and what the hell it's working on if good and evil do not exist?

You've tried, and failed since you are misrepresenting my position - which is that 'temptation' is just subjective thinking just as thoughts  on 'good' and 'evil' are subjective opinions on whatever the issue is.

[Enki]

It seems to me that the words, 'good' and 'evil' are only general terms used by humans in relation to acts that seem to increase/negate such things as human flourishing. This attitude, of course, may vary in any individual according to his/her neurological make up, culture etc.

Actually the word 'temptation' doesn't have to be necessarily associated with 'evil' anyway. An individual can just as easily be tempted to do what is normally accepted as 'good' actions  as 'bad' actions, it would depend to a large extent on which emotions are strongest at any particular point as to how a person would act.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Except that only makes sense if you then assume Gordon accepts the existence of Satan as well. Language is not controlled in the fashion you want to dishonestly represent here. Context is important but that context includes Gordon's post itself and his known  views. That you want to ignore that just underlines your attempts at mendacious maundering.

I know what Gordon believes which is why i'm surprised he engaged.......but it didnt just end there did it Sane?....because he then went on to say temptation (postulated by Alan, Sane, that is undeniable Post 103) was due to Biology.

He laid himself open at that moment to everything I said about him and asked of him....and none of which has yet been answered because there is an Igor scampering about!

[Nearly Sane]

It seems to me that the words, 'good' and 'evil' are only general terms used by humans in relation to acts that seem to increase/negate such things as human flourishing. This attitude, of course, may vary in any individual according to his/her neurological make up, culture etc.

Actually the word 'temptation' doesn't have to be necessarily associated with 'evil' anyway. An individual can just as easily be tempted to do what is normally accepted as 'good' actions  as 'bad' actions, it would depend to a large extent on which emotions are strongest at any particular point as to how a person would act.

In Alan's world though this positive temptation would surely be god doing quantum Morse code?

[Nearly Sane]

I know what Gordon believes which is why i'm surprised he engaged.......but it didnt just end there did it Sane?....because he then went on to say temptation (postulated by Alan, Sane, that is undeniable Post 103) was due to Biology.

He laid himself open at that moment to everything I said about him and asked of him....and none of which has yet been answered because there is an Igor scampering about!

When you asked, you ignored the answer, and gave continued to do so. Stop lying.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No Vlad: I've described 'temptation' as a form of subjective thinking, and that thinking involves functioning biology.

You've tried, and failed since you are misrepresenting my position - which is that 'temptation' is just subjective thinking just as thoughts  on 'good' and 'evil' are subjective opinions on whatever the issue is.

...And i think I pointed out that ''Biologydiddit'' is not an explanatory and cannot fail as an argument but only because it is a theory of everything but if you want to flag up that you are trying to argue specific points by using an ''argument for everything'' then be my guest.

[Gordon]

You need to read #103 again Vlad in relation to Alan's #101 I was replying to.

In this he's says 'Can you define the source of this temptation?', to which I replied 'Your biology' - but this is this beforehe goes on to say 'Can you demonstrate that it does not originate from an evil source which tries to separate us from God?', which I noted was a use of the NPF. Put simply, I referenced biology in relation to his 'source' question and before he introduced the 'evil source' idea which I noted was done fallaciously.

Therefore, I'd say you need to re-read for comprehension.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You need to read #103 again Vlad in relation to Alan's #101 I was replying to.

In this he's says 'Can you define the source of this temptation?', to which I replied 'Your biology'

Thank you. By George I think he's got it.

[Gordon]

I know what Gordon believes which is why i'm surprised he engaged.......but it didnt just end there did it Sane?....because he then went on to say temptation (postulated by Alan, Sane, that is undeniable Post 103) was due to Biology.

Stop lying Vlad - I said this in #109.

'Temptation' is a label that you might ascribe to your subjective thinking regarding any personal inclination you have to do something you may also subjectively regard as being questionable, ideally best avoided or plain wrong: your ability to think on those lines, or think at all for that matter, is a feature of the relevant bits of your biology.

[Gordon]

Thank you. By George I think he's got it.

Selective quoting, Vlad.

You need to read on, Vlad - try #109.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Stop lying Vlad - I said this in #109.

It's not about 109, it's about 103 Alan defines what he means by temptation and YOU responded.

[floo]

It seems to me that the words, 'good' and 'evil' are only general terms used by humans in relation to acts that seem to increase/negate such things as human flourishing. This attitude, of course, may vary in any individual according to his/her neurological make up, culture etc.

Actually the word 'temptation' doesn't have to be necessarily associated with 'evil' anyway. An individual can just as easily be tempted to do what is normally accepted as 'good' actions  as 'bad' actions, it would depend to a large extent on which emotions are strongest at any particular point as to how a person would act.

Good point.

[Alan Burns]

Well, there is plenty of research in neuroscience on the relation between brain activity, and things such as memory, feelings, emotions, thinking, decisions, and so on.

If you accept that thoughts are made up from patterns of brain activity, you then have the problem of how this brain activity from many brain cells can be perceived as a thought by the single entity of consciousness which is you.  Compare it to a picture which is made up from thousands of individual pixels of colour, but it can only be perceived as a picture by an outside entity of observation.  The picture does not perceive itself.  I put it to you that the activity of your brain cells which relate to thought can only be perceived as thought by the single entity of perception which is the human soul.

[Nearly Sane]

If you accept that thoughts are made up from patterns of brain activity, you then have the problem of how this brain activity from many brain cells can be perceived as a thought by the single entity of consciousness which is you.  Compare it to a picture which is made up from thousands of individual pixels of colour, but it can only be perceived as a picture by an outside entity of observation.  The picture does not perceive itself.  I put it to you that the activity of your brain cells which relate to thought can only be perceived as thought by the single entity of perception which is the human soul.

that creates an infinite regress

[Walt Zingmatilder]

that creates an infinite regress

But then the people who state it's just electrical patterns have to answer what it is which perceives them. Just like those who talk about an illusion of self have to answer what it is which is being illuded.

[Nearly Sane]

But then the people who state it's just electrical patterns have to answer what it is which perceives them. Just like those who talk about an illusion of self have to answer what it is which is being illuded.

Don't know. You should learn to understand what that means. You make a claim, your burden of proof. No claim...

[wigginhall]

If you accept that thoughts are made up from patterns of brain activity, you then have the problem of how this brain activity from many brain cells can be perceived as a thought by the single entity of consciousness which is you.  Compare it to a picture which is made up from thousands of individual pixels of colour, but it can only be perceived as a picture by an outside entity of observation.  The picture does not perceive itself.  I put it to you that the activity of your brain cells which relate to thought can only be perceived as thought by the single entity of perception which is the human soul.

Well, you are moving the goal-posts, as you often do.  You were saying before that there was no connection between thinking and the brain, quote, "Until you can define what a thought is, you can't assert that it requires a functioning brain.  Thoughts may well interact with the physical brain to produce measurable brain activity, but this in no way defines the origin or nature of thought."

Now you seem to be accepting that the brain is involved.   Eh?

[Gordon]

It's not about 109, it's about 103 Alan defines what he means by temptation and YOU responded.

I did - and you are misrepresenting my response.