Author Topic: The iniquity of the Catholic church  (Read 22793 times)

floo

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The iniquity of the Catholic church
« on: October 07, 2016, 11:07:11 AM »
The Catholic church has done a lot of damage with its doctrines, purgatory, hell-fire, not permitting contraception etc. Whilst of course not all priests were paedophiles a significant number are/were. The Catholic Church covered up their crimes rather than handing them over to the police! Then there were the disgusting Magdalene Laundries where unmarried pregnant girls were sent to be abused by the nuns running them. Quite a number of people who have attended Catholic schools talk of the cruelty they received at the hands of those in charge.

Other faiths are far from blameless either, but the Catholic Church seems to be the leader of the pack where abuse is concerned.

Do present day Catholics feel any unease about the crimes of the past, and some which continue to this day?

ad_orientem

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2016, 01:44:38 PM »
Zzzz!
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Brownie

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2016, 02:23:54 PM »
Yawn.
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ippy

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2016, 03:36:03 PM »
The Catholic church has done a lot of damage with its doctrines, purgatory, hell-fire, not permitting contraception etc. Whilst of course not all priests were paedophiles a significant number are/were. The Catholic Church covered up their crimes rather than handing them over to the police! Then there were the disgusting Magdalene Laundries where unmarried pregnant girls were sent to be abused by the nuns running them. Quite a number of people who have attended Catholic schools talk of the cruelty they received at the hands of those in charge.

Other faiths are far from blameless either, but the Catholic Church seems to be the leader of the pack where abuse is concerned.

Do present day Catholics feel any unease about the crimes of the past, and some which continue to this day?

Obviously it's fingers in the ears shut the eyes and La La La, they've a lot to account for, didn't the previous pope resign before it was exposed how much he was involved in the child abuse cover up?

I know they've signed off Limbo for still born children now but how cruel and pathetic that was and still they follow?

ippy

floo

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2016, 04:30:57 PM »
I don't think too many Catholics in the UK adhere to the anti-contraception rule nowadays.

Spud

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2016, 05:58:16 PM »
The film, 'The Magdalene Sisters' was quite an eye opener for me.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2016, 06:18:37 PM »
The film, 'The Magdalene Sisters' was quite an eye opener for me.
Was that because there is a scene with naked ladies in it?  :-[
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2016, 06:26:39 PM »
The Catholic church has done a lot of damage with its doctrines, purgatory, hell-fire, not permitting contraception etc. Whilst of course not all priests were paedophiles a significant number are/were. The Catholic Church covered up their crimes rather than handing them over to the police! Then there were the disgusting Magdalene Laundries where unmarried pregnant girls were sent to be abused by the nuns running them. Quite a number of people who have attended Catholic schools talk of the cruelty they received at the hands of those in charge.

Other faiths are far from blameless either, but the Catholic Church seems to be the leader of the pack where abuse is concerned.

Do present day Catholics feel any unease about the crimes of the past, and some which continue to this day?
Do present day antitheists feel any unease about the crimes of Stalin which admittedly stopped around the 30 million mark?

Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2016, 08:53:34 PM »
Do we have any RC's posting here anymore?

Sebastian Toe

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2016, 09:37:46 PM »
Do present day antitheists feel any unease about the crimes of Stalin which admittedly stopped around the 30 million mark?
Have you asked any?
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Brownie

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2016, 09:51:31 PM »
Someone asked about Stalin.   Not Stalin, but when I was at school and found out what the Nazis did to the Jews (& others), I felt a terrible burden and for years had a sort of guilty feeling, that I was part of a section of humanity who had stood by and allowed it all to happen.  Of course I know most ordinary people in this country, my mother for example, didn't know what was going on and only found out afterwards.  I don't feel guilty about that now and it was irrational of me to feel that way but I couldn't help it.  I was ashamed.

I'm an RC, albeit lapsed.  No, I don't feel guilty about the abuse of children by clergy, I haven't abused anyone.  Embarrassed, yes.

At one time I knew the statistics relating to said abuse, I've forgotten them now but floo is forever bringing this up in one place or another so she must know.

The Magdalene Laundries in Ireland were a scandal (as were the 'Industrial Schools' for boys).  They were run by the Good Shepherd nuns.  I spent two years in a Good Shepherd convent, in England from 1966-68, which was a little later than when the Irish mother and baby homes had their heyday and I wasn't pregnant so it was a different scenario;  still I knew what the GS nuns were like, some of them anyway.  Never quite got over it but I always get the impression they were far harsher in Ireland than here.  It was just how they were, they'd have been the same had they not been Catholic.  Some people just like to dominate and humiliate, seems to be built into their nature.  Beats me.

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Sebastian Toe

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2016, 03:30:11 AM »
Beats me.
They did that in Ireland, a lot!
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floo

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2016, 08:27:29 AM »
I reckon if I had got pregnant before I married in 1969, my father, who was half Irish, would have been tempted to ship me off to one of those evil laundries, even though he wasn't Catholic!!!!!! 

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2016, 09:09:42 AM »

Brownie

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2016, 12:25:54 PM »
I reckon if I had got pregnant before I married in 1969, my father, who was half Irish, would have been tempted to ship me off to one of those evil laundries, even though he wasn't Catholic!!!!!!

Nonsense floo, they were in Ireland.  I doubt your parents would have sent you to Ireland even if your dad was half Irish, maybe mainland England where, so I understand, the conditions were better than in the Magdalenes.  In any case, you had a boyfriend from a young age and you loved eachother so you would most likely have got married quickly, which a lot of people did.

Had I become pregnant, I daresay my parents would have wanted me to go somewhere but, again, it wouldn't have been Ireland.  I could be doing my parents an injustice of course, mothers often used to warn daughters and make veiled threats but very often, if it came to it, they looked after their daughter and child.   We will never know what my mum and dad would have done.

The Good Shepherd convent where I was sent had a laundry, it was for the school and the convent and didn't take in outside laundry, except for that of one priest in the district.  We didn't know about the infamous Magdalene laundries in Ireland, had never even heard of them. and some of the girls worked in there part time, in between lessons, but weren't pregnant.  We were paid a little bit, I remember.  A nun had overall charge and, under her, I worked in and was in charge of the wash house and I loved it!

The GS nuns did run a couple of mother and baby homes, one was near Bristol I think.  Some girls visited us from there and seemed to like the place, they were well cared for and the GS order gave them a lot of help if they wanted to keep their babies.  However, that was over here and it was later on in the 1960s than the film sets for the Magdalene laundries.  It's amazing what difference even a couple of years makes, also being in a different countries.
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jeremyp

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2016, 12:33:34 PM »
They did that in Ireland, a lot!
I thought "beating" yourself was a sin in Catholic circles.
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Brownie

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2016, 12:45:01 PM »
Well, there is "The Discipline", which is not supposed to happen now - but who knows what goes on in private?

Many of us regularly 'beat ourselves up'  :D metaphorically speaking, but that's something different entirely.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2016, 01:09:49 PM »

The Magdalene Laundries in Ireland were a scandal (as were the 'Industrial Schools' for boys).  They were run by the Good Shepherd nuns.  I spent two years in a Good Shepherd convent, in England from 1966-68, which was a little later than when the Irish mother and baby homes had their heyday and I wasn't pregnant so it was a different scenario;  still I knew what the GS nuns were like, some of them anyway.  Never quite got over it but I always get the impression they were far harsher in Ireland than here.  It was just how they were, they'd have been the same had they not been Catholic.  Some people just like to dominate and humiliate, seems to be built into their nature.  Beats me.

Don't forget that when the Irish constitution was drawn up by De Valera, the RC Church was given special status - effectively it became an independent organisation within the state of Ireland and could do pretty well what it wanted. The state deferred to the church in matters of morality and did not interfere with its activities. Thus the Magdalene laundries were not inspected and allowed to operate freely - that their treatment of inmates was totally unlawful and unconstitutional was never considered.

I'm sure that there were many good and humane nuns working in the laundries but the lack of external monitoring meant that the bullies and self-important managed to get control. And many were obsessed with idea that sex was equivalent to grave sin.

Don't forget that only a couple of years ago, or so, a pregnant woman was allowed to die in an Irish hospital rather than abort the non-viable foetus she was carrying, such was the confusion among the medical staff about the possible legal consequence of their actions.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2016, 01:10:33 PM »
I thought "beating" yourself was a sin in Catholic circles.
Atheists are always bashing the bishops.

floo

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2016, 01:32:42 PM »
Nonsense floo, they were in Ireland.  I doubt your parents would have sent you to Ireland even if your dad was half Irish, maybe mainland England where, so I understand, the conditions were better than in the Magdalenes.  In any case, you had a boyfriend from a young age and you loved eachother so you would most likely have got married quickly, which a lot of people did.

Had I become pregnant, I daresay my parents would have wanted me to go somewhere but, again, it wouldn't have been Ireland.  I could be doing my parents an injustice of course, mothers often used to warn daughters and make veiled threats but very often, if it came to it, they looked after their daughter and child.   We will never know what my mum and dad would have done.

The Good Shepherd convent where I was sent had a laundry, it was for the school and the convent and didn't take in outside laundry, except for that of one priest in the district.  We didn't know about the infamous Magdalene laundries in Ireland, had never even heard of them. and some of the girls worked in there part time, in between lessons, but weren't pregnant.  We were paid a little bit, I remember.  A nun had overall charge and, under her, I worked in and was in charge of the wash house and I loved it!

The GS nuns did run a couple of mother and baby homes, one was near Bristol I think.  Some girls visited us from there and seemed to like the place, they were well cared for and the GS order gave them a lot of help if they wanted to keep their babies.  However, that was over here and it was later on in the 1960s than the film sets for the Magdalene laundries.  It's amazing what difference even a couple of years makes, also being in a different countries.

If you actually read my post, I said my father would have been tempted to send me to Ireland, I didn't say he would have actually done so, or would have been able to do so had he wished!

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2016, 01:36:44 PM »
Atheists are always bashing the bishops.

Yeah it.relieves the pressure of having to deal with inane theists.
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floo

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2016, 01:38:43 PM »
Atheists are always bashing the bishops.

I praised Desmond Tutu who is an Archbishop!

Brownie

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2016, 02:08:35 PM »
So did I, floo, and I take your point about earlier discussion re dad and pregnancy (that sounds funny, I'll leave it as you'll know what I mean).

HH:  I'm sure that there were many good and humane nuns working in the laundries but the lack of external monitoring meant that the bullies and self-important managed to get control. And many were obsessed with idea that sex was equivalent to grave sin.

Yes I agree with all of that - and we had a lot of that in England too which made life difficult.  You are right too that there were some good and humane nuns, some quite jolly and humourous.
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ippy

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2016, 03:42:08 PM »
So did I, floo, and I take your point about earlier discussion re dad and pregnancy (that sounds funny, I'll leave it as you'll know what I mean).

HH:  I'm sure that there were many good and humane nuns working in the laundries but the lack of external monitoring meant that the bullies and self-important managed to get control. And many were obsessed with idea that sex was equivalent to grave sin.

Yes I agree with all of that - and we had a lot of that in England too which made life difficult.  You are right too that there were some good and humane nuns, some quite jolly and humourous.

I would have thought being a Nun would necessarily require a sense of humour.

ippy

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Re: The iniquity of the Catholic church
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2016, 03:44:59 PM »
May I suggest watching the following

http://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/the-catholic-church-is-a-force-for-good-in-the-world/

Stephen Fry, Christopher Hitchens debate the statement that "The Catholic Church is a force for good in the World" with Archbishop John Onaiyekan and Ann Widdecombe.

I am not a fan of Christopher Hitchens, but I am of Stephen Fry, but the pair of them seem to make a good case against the motion, as demonstrated by the vote at the end of the debate.

I will be inetersted to see your comments on the debate and it contents and result. Assuming, of course, anyone watches it.
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