The iniquity of the Catholic church

[Nearly Sane]

Oh sorry, Gordon I think there is more to temptation than thinking I think there is the subconscious as well...and feelings.
Most people who succumb to temptation would put it down to not thinking wouldn't they?

Mind you you could put all that down to our inherited biology.

Why have a biology to deal with something which doesn't exist? Good and evil?

I just direct you back to 103 Gordon. You didn't need to offer Alan a scientific explanation for temptation to evil, You could have cut straight to the chase and said there were no such things as good and evil......far be it for a moral realist to tell a moral irrealist his job.

and again Gordon didn't say evil existed -stop lying

[Nearly Sane]

I rather think that was Gordon who seems to think Good and evil do not exist as such and then offers an explanation of how we are tempted to it.

I have brought this up with him.

He didn't sat good and evil existed in his statement on temptation. Stop lying.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

He didn't sat good and evil existed in his statement on temptation. Stop lying.

What are you on about? I've just said he seems to think they don't exist. Please read my posts.

[Nearly Sane]

What are you on about? I've just said he seems to think they don't exist. Please read my posts.

I did to quote you
'I rather think that was Gordon who seems to think Good and evil do not exist as such and then offers an explanation of how we are tempted to it.'



The boldened bit is then arguing that Gordon's statement on temptation takes a position that evil does exist. His statement dies not do this. Stop lying.

[Gordon]

Oh sorry, Gordon I think there is more to temptation than thinking I think there is the subconscious as well...and feelings.
Most people who succumb to temptation would put it down to not thinking wouldn't they?

So, how is the subconscious not part of the biology involved in thinking? That you don't need to consciously remember to keep breathing is also part of your biology - that you aren't aware of it doesn't change that. Surely for someone to 'succumb to temptation' they'd have to be thinking about their prospective conduct in order to feel 'tempted' in the first place.

Mind you you could put all that down to our inherited biology.

I could, since I can't see how thinking can be divorced from our biology.

Why have a biology to deal with something which doesn't exist? Good and evil?

You biology allows you to have subjective thoughts about all sorts of stuff.

I just direct you back to 103 Gordon. You didn't need to offer Alan a scientific explanation for temptation to evil, You could have cut straight to the chase and said there were no such things as good and evil......far be it for a moral realist to tell a moral irrealist his job.

That wasn't the point of my answer though: my point was simply that temptation involves thinking and coming to subjective opinions.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So, how is the subconscious not part of the biology involved in thinking? That you don't need to consciously remember to keep breathing is also part of your biology - that you aren't aware of it doesn't change that. Surely for someone to 'succumb to temptation' they'd have to be thinking about their prospective conduct in order to feel 'tempted' in the first place.

I could, since I can't see how thinking can be divorced from our biology.

You biology allows you to have subjective thoughts about all sorts of stuff.

That wasn't the point of my answer though: my point was simply that temptation involves thinking and coming to subjective opinions.

Yes We can put it down to Biology did it.....We are creatures after all.

However you haven't answered the question. If Evil doesn't exist how come biology has evolved strategies against it or conversely if there is temptation what on earth biologically is it for? This is important as I think you'll agree Biologydiddit is a theory of everything rather than an explanatory.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I did to quote you
'I rather think that was Gordon who seems to think Good and evil do not exist as such and then offers an explanation of how we are tempted to it.'



The boldened bit is then arguing that Gordon's statement on temptation takes a position that evil does exist. His statement dies not do this. Stop lying.

No No No that's what Gordon did!!!!!! Read 103!

You are having a go at me because your master is hopelessly confused!!!!???!!!!!

[Nearly Sane]

No No No that's what Gordon did!!!!!! Read 103!

You are having a go at me because your master is hopelessly confused!!!!???!!!!!

I am having a go at you because you are lying. 103 says nothing about the existence of evil.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I am having a go at you because you are lying. 103 says nothing about the existence of evil.

103 includes a quote from Alan about temptation to do wrong...That's Alan talking about it so I think that we can assume a fairly christian view of the word wrong.....and then....amazingly...Gordon takes up the challenge!!!

[floo]

I don't believe good and evil exist outside the human psyche.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I don't believe good and evil exist outside the human psyche.

Do you believe that the human psyche exists?

[floo]

Do you believe that the human psyche exists?

We all have minds don't we?

[Nearly Sane]

103 includes a quote from Alan about temptation to do wrong...That's Alan talking about it so I think that we can assume a fairly christian view of the word wrong.....and then....amazingly...Gordon takes up the challenge!!!

and Gordon writes that the whole concepts are merely thinking, not external. You shouldn't try and shoehorn words such as evil in as existing when they are not used.

[Nearly Sane]

We all have minds don't we?

Psyche was once, and can still be used, as synonymous for soul. Vlad is on a little funk odyssey  of trying to say that when people use words with specific contextual meanings, that they are accepting the meaning he finds more 'useful
'

[Sassy]

I did to quote you
'I rather think that was Gordon who seems to think Good and evil do not exist as such and then offers an explanation of how we are tempted to it.'



The boldened bit is then arguing that Gordon's statement on temptation takes a position that evil does exist. His statement dies not do this. Stop lying.

NS,

I think you miss the point.

Does temptation mean a position of good or evil?

Alan I believe said Satan tempts us. But is temptation relative to evil or good or both.
If good or evil does not exist but Satan is evil. Can you say (when resorting to say 'temptation' to a Christian from Satan) is to do evil that Gordon is speaking about temptation relevant to this or not? How are you going to maintain an argument in relation to the above situation?

For this purpose of this thread, Alan has asserted that Satan who is evil; tempts those who believe 'God is good', to do what God considers evil.

You need to hold on to the main concerns of the thread. That you cannot take Gordons comments or Vlads to refer to anything but the context set about by Alan as Satan tempting man to do evil.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We all have minds don't we?

Nicely sidestepped.

[floo]

Psyche was once, and can still be used, as synonymous for soul. Vlad is on a little funk odyssey  of trying to say that when people use words with specific contextual meanings, that they are accepting the meaning he finds more 'useful
'

I hadn't realised the term psyche could be used in reference to the soul!

[floo]

Nicely sidestepped.

In my opinion, the word soul is just another term for consciousness.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We all have minds don't we?

So do you think that minds exist?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

In my opinion, the word soul is just another term for consciousness.

Does consciousness exist?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad is on a little funk odyssey 

Funk odyssey? White noise? next you'll have me ''shaking my groove thing''!!!!!!

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

I think you miss the point.

Does temptation mean a position of good or evil?

Alan I believe said Satan tempts us. But is temptation relative to evil or good or both.
If good or evil does not exist but Satan is evil. Can you say (when resorting to say 'temptation' to a Christian from Satan) is to do evil that Gordon is speaking about temptation relevant to this or not? How are you going to maintain an argument in relation to the above situation?

For this purpose of this thread, Alan has asserted that Satan who is evil; tempts those who believe 'God is good', to do what God considers evil.

You need to hold on to the main concerns of the thread. That you cannot take Gordons comments or Vlads to refer to anything but the context set about by Alan as Satan tempting man to do evil.

Since Gordon does not believe in Satan, that's contextually wrong

[Nearly Sane]

Funk odyssey? White noise? next you'll have me ''shaking my groove thing''!!!!!!

as long as you don't get your ya yas out!

[floo]

as long as you don't get your ya yas out!

Oh please that is as frightening as those idiots who have been jumping out at people wearing very unpleasant clown masks!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Since Gordon does not believe in Satan, that's contextually wrong

Gordon blundered. I have brought this up with him.
He does say that temptation is down to biology. he said that in response to Alan. These things are undeniable Sane.

While you have been playing Igor to the monster chimera Gordon seems to have created. I have tried to get Gordon to move beyond Biologydiddit to get him to say just how temptation works and what the hell it's working on if good and evil do not exist?