Sabbath rests...

[Sassy]

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it;
 that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Jesus kept the Sabbath day and NEVER changed it. He said "
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
Which means Jesus kept the Sabbath day Holy.

So which is the Sabbath day we are to prserve and keep Holy.

Christ spoke the truth when he said they would no longer worship on the mountain or in Jerusalem for the true
worshippers worship in Spirit and Truth. Whilst Paul said no one day more important than another, I believe it was in relation
to the true worshippers always praising God every day in their hearts and lives.

Holy periods are times of rest and we are still to observe the Sabbaths rest.

However Christ has not done away with the teachings of the Prophets or the Laws so the Sabbath rests must be kept.

I believe the Sabbath never changed and Christ never changed keeping the Sabbath day Holy.

[jeremyp]

So why do Christians pretend it's Sunday?

[floo]

What is there to praise about the Biblical god?

[Sassy]

So why do Christians pretend it's Sunday?

All the feasts and Sabbaths which are days to refrain from the usual days routine could be seen as just that, days of rest. But the main Sabbath day was Friday night to Saturday evening.
This was thee Sabbath Day. Christ never changed it and man adopted Sunday as a day of rest as Christ completed his work that day.
But he too kept the Sabbath hence he never rose or completed his work on that day.

We should not lose sight of the fact that God made the Sabbath for the good of man, not man for the Sabbath. Hence it is okay to dig your cow out of a well or help your neighbour in the Sabbath day.

[floo]

(((((But he too kept the Sabbath hence he never rose or completed his work on that day.)))))

Do you mean Jesus never got out of bed on the sabbath?

[Khatru]

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it;
 that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Jesus kept the Sabbath day and NEVER changed it. He said "
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
Which means Jesus kept the Sabbath day Holy.

So which is the Sabbath day we are to prserve and keep Holy.

Christ spoke the truth when he said they would no longer worship on the mountain or in Jerusalem for the true
worshippers worship in Spirit and Truth. Whilst Paul said no one day more important than another, I believe it was in relation
to the true worshippers always praising God every day in their hearts and lives.

Holy periods are times of rest and we are still to observe the Sabbaths rest.

However Christ has not done away with the teachings of the Prophets or the Laws so the Sabbath rests must be kept.

I believe the Sabbath never changed and Christ never changed keeping the Sabbath day Holy.

So why do you:

1.  Observe the Sabbath on a different day outwith of wha was originally ordained by your deity?

2.  No longer kill people who don't observe the Sabbath?

[Gordon]

I take the view that what people do with Sunday is a matter for them and that options should not be unduly restricted because some regard it as 'holy'. So, apart from time spent here, my plans include spending some time in the bookies and I know that Mrs G plans to do the weekly shop this evening (no Sunday trading restrictons here), so my trolley-pushing skills will be required later.

If some want to do some religious stuff I have no objections to that whatsoever: it is none of my business how they choose to spend their time.

[floo]

Sunday is a day on which people should do their own thing, religious or otherwise, if they don't have to work that day.

[Sassy]

So why do you:

1.  Observe the Sabbath on a different day outwith of wha was originally ordained by your deity?

I don't observe the Sabbath on a different day. The true Sabbath will always be the Friday to Saturday. But believer celebrate the resurrection of Christ as being a day of salvation.
But the true worshipper worships in Spirit and Truth they live every day knowing God and the truth.

2.  No longer kill people who don't observe the Sabbath?

Christ changed that himself... "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
Now Satan has been judged and Christ has died so the New Covenant not like the old is set up. Then only God and Christ can judge those who now break the laws and the Sabbath.
Do you suggest people should ignore God and Christ to follow your suggestion?
So when you bring these things up, why not go and find the answers for yourself.

[ad_orientem]

So why do Christians pretend it's Sunday?

We don't. Saturday is still referred to as the Sabbath in our liturgical books. Christians simply don't keep the Sabbath. Instead we keep the Lord's Day, the day of the week our Lord rose from the dead and this is in imitation of the Apostles who also gathered on the Lord's Day.

[Hope]

I believe the Sabbath never changed and Christ never changed keeping the Sabbath day Holy.

But remember what the Sabbath commemorated, Sass.  It was the 7th day of the week, when God rested.

The early church chose to change the day because they wished to remember the 1st day of the week, when Jesus rose from the grave.

So why do Christians pretend it's Sunday?

Christians have never pretended that it is Sunday, jeremy.  As pointed out above, the early church chose to remember a different day of the week which held different memories.

[floo]

But remember what the Sabbath commemorated, Sass.  It was the 7th day of the week, when God rested.

The early church chose to change the day because they wished to remember the 1st day of the week, when Jesus rose from the grave.
Christians have never pretended that it is Sunday, jeremy.  As pointed out above, the early church chose to remember a different day of the week which held different memories.

Why would an omnipotent god need to rest, that is a very human need?

[Anchorman]

I'd go a tad further. The early church venerated the first day of the week as it commemorated the Resurrection; it also distanced themselves from being seen - as they were - as a somewhat eccentric scion of Judaism.

[Hope]

What is there to praise about the Biblical god?

There is more to praise 'about' the Biblical God than all there is to praise the human race for, Floo.

[Hope]

Why would an omnipotent god need to rest, that is a very human need?

You'll need to ask the Jews whose belief this is, but I suspect that it is an exemplar teaching - something that any good teacher will use quite regularly.

[Sassy]

But remember what the Sabbath commemorated, Sass.  It was the 7th day of the week, when God rested.

We have no reason to believe it isn't the same as the Jews celebrate today.
It is a day we need to think about upkeeping.

The early church chose to change the day because they wished to remember the 1st day of the week, when Jesus rose from the grave.
Christians have never pretended that it is Sunday, jeremy.  As pointed out above, the early church chose to remember a different day of the week which held different memories.

The sabbath can never be changed. Christ did not come to do away with the Law or teachings of the Prophets. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Christ never changed it and never at any time wanted anyone to keep from keeping the Sabbath day holy. 56 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

The true meaning is as you say the 7th day God rested.

[Anchorman]

Ah, I'd almost forgotten that God only communicates with His followers in Ja cobean English......

[Hope]

We have no reason to believe it isn't the same as the Jews celebrate today.
It is a day we need to think about upkeeping.

Actually, Sass, we have a considerable body of evidence to show that it is a different day.  If you read the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament, you will find it pretty clearly.  After all, the day of the execution was the day before the sabbath (which is why there was a need to bury the body so quickly so as not to be seen to be 'working' on the Sabbath), and the 3rd day on which Jesus rose would therefore have been the day after the Sabbath. 

The sabbath can never be changed. Christ did not come to do away with the Law or teachings of the Prophets. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The church didn't change the Sabbath; rather they changed the day that they celebrated the events of the resuurection.  The Sabbath still exists, but in Judaism, rather than in Christianity.

The true meaning is as you say the 7th day God rested.

And I think you will agree that the resurrection of Jesus sort of supercedes that day he rested - at least for the Christian.

[Sassy]

Actually, Sass, we have a considerable body of evidence to show that it is a different day.  If you read the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament, you will find it pretty clearly.  After all, the day of the execution was the day before the sabbath (which is why there was a need to bury the body so quickly so as not to be seen to be 'working' on the Sabbath), and the 3rd day on which Jesus rose would therefore have been the day after the Sabbath. 
The church didn't change the Sabbath; rather they changed the day that they celebrated the events of the resuurection.  The Sabbath still exists, but in Judaism, rather than in Christianity.
And I think you will agree that the resurrection of Jesus sort of supercedes that day he rested - at least for the Christian.

Hope,


Did you miss this post of mine,

All the feasts and Sabbaths which are days to refrain from the usual days routine could be seen as just that, days of rest. But the main Sabbath day was Friday night to Saturday evening.
This was thee Sabbath Day. Christ never changed it and man adopted Sunday as a day of rest as Christ completed his work that day.
But he too kept the Sabbath hence he never rose or completed his work on that day.

We should not lose sight of the fact that God made the Sabbath for the good of man, not man for the Sabbath. Hence it is okay to dig your cow out of a well or help your neighbour in the Sabbath day.

The Sabbath day is not superceded by the day Christ rose.
Christ clearly stated his work was completed on the Friday.
"It is Finished"....

The seventh day he rested. Sundown Friday till Sun down Saturday. When they went to the grave first light Sunday Morning he was not there.

Christ would not have risen on the Sabbath day but he did rise on the Sunday.
But the days are immaterial in that it was the death and resurrection which counted.

Jesus is the Son of God and we are told in Isaiah that the Sabbath day is to be kept Holy even after the Son of Man has come. No day is more important than another. But the Sabbath day is to be kept Holy.

[Khatru]

So what's the score then, Sass?

You said...

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

You also said...

However Christ has not done away with the teachings of the Prophets or the Laws

When asked about the law of killing people for working on the Sabbath, you said...

Christ changed that himself

So, despite your earlier utterances about Jesus not doing away with the laws, you're also saying that he did.

Please can you clear up the confusion here as you seem to be contradicting yourself.

[Khatru]

We should not lose sight of the fact that God made the Sabbath for the good of man, not man for the Sabbath. Hence it is okay to dig your cow out of a well or help your neighbour in the Sabbath day.

Ah, that's where picking up sticks man went wrong.

He should have reminded the Bible god that the Sabbath was made for the good of man.  Maybe if he'd given the examples you give anove, Yaweh would have spared his life.

[Sassy]

So what's the score then, Sass?

You said...

You also said...

When asked about the law of killing people for working on the Sabbath, you said...

So, despite your earlier utterances about Jesus not doing away with the laws, you're also saying that he did.

Please can you clear up the confusion here as you seem to be contradicting yourself.

Are you really sure you should be asking questions you do not understand the answer to?

Khatru
2.  No longer kill people who don't observe the Sabbath?

Christ changed that himself... "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
Now Satan has been judged and Christ has died so the New Covenant not like the old is set up. Then only God and Christ can judge those who now break the laws and the Sabbath.
Do you suggest people should ignore God and Christ to follow your suggestion?
So when you bring these things up, why not go and find the answers for yourself.

John 4 shows the Jews even Samaritans knew there were different beliefs by the Pharisees and Sadducees and Jesus was to GIVE THE CORRECT TEACHINGS.
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
Christ fulfilled the teachings and the laws. He also pointed out that anyone who breaks one law breaks them all.

King James Bible
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Hence no one can punish another now for any sin because only God and Christ can judge now.

Everyone has sinned not one but Christ is innocent from sin. And so only he has the right to judge another person and put them to death.

If you don't know the bible should you really be asking?

[Khatru]

Are you really sure you should be asking questions you do not understand the answer to?

Typical of your religion to discourage questioning.  Mindless obedience is all, eh?

Christ changed that himself... "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

He was addressing the crowd who were going to kill the woman caught in adultery.  Were they going to kill the man too?  There wasn't much said about him.

Christ fulfilled the teachings and the laws. He also pointed out that anyone who breaks one law breaks them all.

So everytime you wear mixed fabrics you're breaking ALL the laws and when Jesus comes back you'll be punished.  Looks like you're going into the fire, Sass.

Hence no one can punish another now for any sin because only God and Christ can judge now.

So when someone kills, steals or wears mixed fabrics, Jesus and God don't want us to punish them?

Everyone has sinned not one but Christ is innocent from sin. And so only he has the right to judge another person and put them to death.

Put them to death?  What happened to all that "love your enemy as if he was yourself" schtick?  Looks like Jesus lacks the conviction of his own words.

If you don't know the bible should you really be asking?

There you go again, discouraging questioning.  Ever the actions of someone who knows their religion won't stand up to scrutiny.

[Sassy]

Typical of your religion to discourage questioning.  Mindless obedience is all, eh?

He was addressing the crowd who were going to kill the woman caught in adultery.  Were they going to kill the man too?  There wasn't much said about him.

So everytime you wear mixed fabrics you're breaking ALL the laws and when Jesus comes back you'll be punished.  Looks like you're going into the fire, Sass.

So when someone kills, steals or wears mixed fabrics, Jesus and God don't want us to punish them?

Put them to death?  What happened to all that "love your enemy as if he was yourself" schtick?  Looks like Jesus lacks the conviction of his own words.

There you go again, discouraging questioning.  Ever the actions of someone who knows their religion won't stand up to scrutiny.

Khatru

from: Sassy on October 12, 2016, 08:48:45 PM
Are you really sure you should be asking questions you do not understand the answer to?

Typical of your religion to discourage questioning.  Mindless obedience is all, eh?

How does your ignorance (which is yet again show fact by the post I wrote) relate to my own beliefs? If anything my post has answered and shown why you are ignorant.
All you have done is shown that you once again have no answer just throw an insult and hope no one else notices. We answer your questions you just don't like the answers because you cannot provide answers back as you haven't a clue about the conversation.

Khatru

from: Sassy on October 12, 2016, 08:48:45 PM
Christ changed that himself... "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

He was addressing the crowd who were going to kill the woman caught in adultery.  Were they going to kill the man too?  There wasn't much said about him.

Another red herring...the man had nothing to do with the fact of what Christ taught.
They were going to kill the woman in adultery because the laws said this.
King James Bible
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

So now Christ has come the Messiah and the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34.

He tells them that a person who is guilty of one sin is guilty of breaking the whole law.. did you not read the post fully? And if guilty of one it matters not which then all guilty and the penalty of sin is death. So he says the well known phrase. The crowd disappear and no one but Christ left. His words to her when no one is left to accuse her, " I do not condemn you either, go but do not sin again.
You see how not knowing the bible causes you to write constantly without understanding or truth.  I
xxxx

Quote from: Sassy on October 12, 2016, 08:48:45 PM
Christ fulfilled the teachings and the laws. He also pointed out that anyone who breaks one law breaks them all.

So everytime you wear mixed fabrics you're breaking ALL the laws and when Jesus comes back you'll be punished.  Looks like you're going into the fire, Sass.

Quote from: Sassy on October 12, 2016, 08:48:45 PM
Hence no one can punish another now for any sin because only God and Christ can judge now.

So when someone kills, steals or wears mixed fabrics, Jesus and God don't want us to punish them?

Quote from: Sassy on October 12, 2016, 08:48:45 PM
Everyone has sinned not one but Christ is innocent from sin. And so only he has the right to judge another person and put them to death.

Put them to death?  What happened to all that "love your enemy as if he was yourself" schtick?  Looks like Jesus lacks the conviction of his own words.

Quote from: Sassy on October 12, 2016, 08:48:45 PM
If you don't know the bible should you really be asking?

There you go again, discouraging questioning.  Ever the actions of someone who knows their religion won't stand up to scrutiny.

Whose Covenant is that?  The Covenant God made with the Israelites through Moses, hey?
Had you known your bible you would know this truth which is the truth about the new covenant
with the Messiah/Jesus Christ which is not like the old covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You can see if you knew anything about Christ the Messiah and the New Covenant that you would not ask questions which are already answered in the bible. Now Christ has brought the new covenant in and the sins for those who believe forgiven. As the word says.. Only Christ and God can forgive sinners their sins. Those like yourself who are sinners cannot and never will be able to judge others when full of sin yourself.

So why ask silly questions when the covenant is not like the old covenant of the Israelites.
That was there covenant and we and the gentiles are all in one new covenant. Not like the old the last verse explains why.

Isaiah 54:17 kjv


17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

The New Covenant are people who are righteous by the truth of God in Christ Jesus. The New Covenant which is clearly explained will NOT be like the old covenant. Now we have settled this. Now you know the Covenant is not like the old.
Perhaps you will speak the truth and not ask questions which apply only to the old covenant with the Israelties.

[Khatru]

Typical of your religion to discourage questioning.  Mindless obedience is all, eh?
How does your ignorance (which is yet again show fact by the post I wrote) relate to my own beliefs? If anything my post has answered and shown why you are ignorant.
All you have done is shown that you once again have no answer just throw an insult and hope no one else notices. We answer your questions you just don't like the answers because you cannot provide answers back as you haven't a clue about the conversation.
He was addressing the crowd who were going to kill the woman caught in adultery.  Were they going to kill the man too?  There wasn't much said about him.
Another red herring...the man had nothing to do with the fact of what Christ taught.
They were going to kill the woman in adultery because the laws said this.
King James Bible
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

So now Christ has come the Messiah and the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34.

He tells them that a person who is guilty of one sin is guilty of breaking the whole law.. did you not read the post fully? And if guilty of one it matters not which then all guilty and the penalty of sin is death. So he says the well known phrase. The crowd disappear and no one but Christ left. His words to her when no one is left to accuse her, " I do not condemn you either, go but do not sin again.
You see how not knowing the bible causes you to write constantly without understanding or truth.  I
xxxxWhose Covenant is that?  The Covenant God made with the Israelites through Moses, hey?
Had you known your bible you would know this truth which is the truth about the new covenant
with the Messiah/Jesus Christ which is not like the old covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You can see if you knew anything about Christ the Messiah and the New Covenant that you would not ask questions which are already answered in the bible. Now Christ has brought the new covenant in and the sins for those who believe forgiven. As the word says.. Only Christ and God can forgive sinners their sins. Those like yourself who are sinners cannot and never will be able to judge others when full of sin yourself.

So why ask silly questions when the covenant is not like the old covenant of the Israelites.
That was there covenant and we and the gentiles are all in one new covenant. Not like the old the last verse explains why.

Isaiah 54:17 kjv


17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

The New Covenant are people who are righteous by the truth of God in Christ Jesus. The New Covenant which is clearly explained will NOT be like the old covenant. Now we have settled this. Now you know the Covenant is not like the old.
Perhaps you will speak the truth and not ask questions which apply only to the old covenant with the Israelties.

Your above response falls within the scope of the third and eigth examples on my "Christian Cop Out List"

I don't understand because I need to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
I don't understand because I need to view it from a child's perspective
I don't understand because I'm not a "true Christian"
I don't understand because I'm not a biblical scholar
I don't understand because I took the scripture out of context.
I don't understand because it means something other than what it actually says
I don't understand because it's an allegory
I don't understand because my mind is far too feeble to comprehend your god's truth
I don't understand because I've not been filled with the holy spirit

Then of course, we have the "we're not supposed to understand it because God works in mysterious ways"

All of the above are used by believers in their efforts to defend the contradiction and error found throughout the Bible. I have no doubt you've used them all before.