Sabbath rests...

[Sassy]

Khatru,

You keeping taking things out of context and furthermore, you now know how wrong you have been and how false your assertions have been.

I take it that you do not want to discuss further as you will continually find that you are unable to defend your stance in the face of the truthful facts neglected by yourself concerning the bible.

[Khatru]

Khatru,

You keeping taking things out of context and furthermore, you now know how wrong you have been and how false your assertions have been.

I take it that you do not want to discuss further as you will continually find that you are unable to defend your stance in the face of the truthful facts neglected by yourself concerning the bible.

I'm sure you'll appreciate that I see it as you retreating behind a wall of myth and magic whenever you're unable to refute the biblical errors and contradictions that are pointed out.  Still, not to worry as I intend to carry on pointing them out.

[Sassy]

I'm sure you'll appreciate that I see it as you retreating behind a wall of myth and magic whenever you're unable to refute the biblical errors and contradictions that are pointed out.  Still, not to worry as I intend to carry on pointing them out.

No! you don't see what you have said that way.
Nor can you when we were discussing matters of the bible teachings which you got wrong.
So excuses are no available to you to hide behind because they make no impact on what we actually discussed.

[Khatru]

No! you don't see what you have said that way.
Nor can you when we were discussing matters of the bible teachings which you got wrong.
So excuses are no available to you to hide behind because they make no impact on what we actually discussed.

Hmmm

Looks like the fifth and sixth cop-outs on the following list:

I don't understand because I need to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
I don't understand because I need to view it from a child's perspective
I don't understand because, unlike you, I'm not a "true Christian"
I don't understand because I'm not a biblical scholar
I don't understand because I took the scripture out of context.
I don't understand because it means something other than what it actually says
I don't understand because it's an allegory
I don't understand because my mind is far too feeble to comprehend your god's truth
I don't understand because I've not been filled with the holy spirit

[Hope]

Hmmm

Looks like the fifth and sixth cop-outs on the following list:

I don't understand because I need to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
I don't understand because I need to view it from a child's perspective
I don't understand because, unlike you, I'm not a "true Christian"
I don't understand because I'm not a biblical scholar
I don't understand because I took the scripture out of context.
I don't understand because it means something other than what it actually says
I don't understand because it's an allegory
I don't understand because my mind is far too feeble to comprehend your god's truth
I don't understand because I've not been filled with the holy spirit

Well taking anything out of context is a pretty daft action, Khat - and doing so will often result in the sixth consequence.  As for 'cop-out', unfortunately even in British law, ignorance isn't really a defence.

[Hope]

Sass, a question.  Bearing in mind the roles that the religious leaders had/have to fulfil on a Sabbath, could they be deemed to be breaking the Sabbath laws?  Furthermore, how many of the laws regarding the Jewish Sabbath were introduced by the religious leaders over time??

[Sassy]

Sass, a question.  Bearing in mind the roles that the religious leaders had/have to fulfil on a Sabbath, could they be deemed to be breaking the Sabbath laws?  Furthermore, how many of the laws regarding the Jewish Sabbath were introduced by the religious leaders over time??

The Sabbath was made for the good of man. Christ pointed out to Jews about the Sabbath and some of their man made rituals.

Read Matthew 12. We are not talking about the man made religious beliefs. We are talking about what God taught.
The answer is simple in that God did not make man for the sabbath he made the sabbath so man could rest from his work.
For his own good. David and his men ate the meat in the Temple, even. Christ is like david they have living relationships with God. Just as Christians have living relationships with God.

Just as those who do the right things in Gods sight are acceptable to him.

Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. He kept the sabbath day but doing good works is not to stop because it is the sabbath.
Because good works like the sabbath was ordained by God for the good of man.

[floo]

The so called 'sabbath' is a very human creation.

[Khatru]

Well taking anything out of context is a pretty daft action, Khat - and doing so will often result in the sixth consequence.  As for 'cop-out', unfortunately even in British law, ignorance isn't really a defence.

Most of the time, when someone accuses me of taking something out of context, they invariably fail to explain why it's out of context.

Of course, I've encountered many a believer who cherry-picks pieces of scripture when it suits their purpose.

"The fool hath said in his heart "There is no god"."

That's one which they often wheel out, all the time omitting to quote the second sentence of that verse which blows their case right out of the water.

[floo]

Most of the time, when someone accuses me of taking something out of context, they invariably fail to explain why it's out of context.

Of course, I've encountered many a believer who cherry-picks pieces of scripture when it suits their purpose.

"The fool hath said in his heart "There is no god"."

That's one which they often wheel out, all the time omitting to quote the second sentence of that verse which blows their case right out of the water.

It should read, 'but god is a fool for not making its presence irrefutable!'

[Hope]

Most of the time, when someone accuses me of taking something out of context, they invariably fail to explain why it's out of context.

Like you, I've come across many people, including some here, who can't or who refuse to explain why thy feel that something has been taken out of context, but I've also met several folk - again some here, who are meticulous in their explanations. 

Of course, I've encountered many a believer who cherry-picks pieces of scripture when it suits their purpose.

"The fool hath said in his heart "There is no god"."

That's one which they often wheel out, all the time omitting to quote the second sentence of that verse which blows their case right out of the water.

Not sure why the second sentence "blows their case right out of the water", Khat.  After all, it is talking about the people who say that there is no God.  Ironically, I have heard more people use this quote to support their decision to disbelieve in God, than anyone else.

[Hope]

It should read, 'but god is a fool for not making its presence irrefutable!'

So, you don't want people to have the option of making up their own minds, preferring a robotic response, Floo?

[Gordon]

Ironically, I have heard more people use this quote to support their decision to disbelieve in God, than anyone else.

Does that apply to anyone here?

I'm struggling to think of anyone here who has made a 'decision to disbelieve in God' - rejecting the arguments for God as advanced by theists is not equivalent to actively 'disbelieving' since, it seems to me, the arguments I reject are, by dint of being either incoherent or fallacious, not something I need take seriously beyond just dismissing them.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Does that apply to anyone here?

'ere we go again.......Nothing applies to anybody around here does it?

Of course it does.

[Gordon]

'ere we go again.......Nothing applies to anybody around here does it?

Of course it does.

Do tell.

[Hope]

Does that apply to anyone here?

I wouldn't include the kind of rejection you refer to below in the category I previously referred to, Gordon - so, no it doesn't knowingly include anyone here.

I'm struggling to think of anyone here who has made a 'decision to disbelieve in God' - rejecting the arguments for God as advanced by theists is not equivalent to actively 'disbelieving' since, it seems to me, the arguments I reject are, by dint of being either incoherent or fallacious, not something I need take seriously beyond just dismissing them.

I suspect that many here who disagree with you may reject your opinion for much the same reasons - fallacy and incoherence.

[Gordon]

I wouldn't include the kind of rejection you refer to below in the category I previously referred to, Gordon - so, no it doesn't knowingly include anyone here.

Then why mention it here if it doesn't apply to anyone here.

I suspect that many here who disagree with you may reject your opinion for much the same reasons - fallacy and incoherence.

Then feel free to point what fallacies I've committed. Examples would be useful.

[floo]

So, you don't want people to have the option of making up their own minds, preferring a robotic response, Floo?

Oh come on, another excuse for the failings of the Biblical god!

[Sassy]

Most of the time, when someone accuses me of taking something out of context, they invariably fail to explain why it's out of context.

RUBBISH... you haven't the ability to understand the scriptures or the New Testament in a believers knowledge of truth.
Hence you would have encountered the truth of John 16:13.
John 16:13King James Version (KJV)

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The believers knowledge is not left to chance they are taught by the Spirit so their knowledge is going to be truth and yours is still in the field of misunderstanding.

Of course, I've encountered many a believer who cherry-picks pieces of scripture when it suits their purpose.

"The fool hath said in his heart "There is no god"."

That's one which they often wheel out, all the time omitting to quote the second sentence of that verse which blows their case right out of the water.

King James Bible
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

It isn't difficult, actions speak louder than words. How do you know when someone shows they do not believe in God?
Corruption, hateful works, and no good works done. A fool doesn't have to say out loud but clearly what he believes and says in his own heart is shown in his works.

In truth the OT never had chapters and verses in the times of Christ.
They were added later for ease of reading.
These things were learned by heart as the disciples show when you see them in John 2 listening to Christ.


16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

They knew their scriptures and they remembered as Christ spoke and his actions what was written.

The disciples never mocked Christ or took things out of context. They knew what their hearts believed.
They believed in God and when the time for Christ came they knew in their hearts what he was doing had been foretold.
It was only later when he died and rose the real understanding of the meaning of those words came to them.

Spirit and Truth as Christ foretold.

King James Bible
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

How can the dark come to terms with the light?

[floo]

Sass has nearly reached the centre of the Earth her hole is so deep!

[Khatru]

Not sure why the second sentence "blows their case right out of the water", Khat.  After all, it is talking about the people who say that there is no God.  Ironically, I have heard more people use this quote to support their decision to disbelieve in God, than anyone else.

OK - let's consider the scripture:

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good".

Psalm 14:1

I've never known a believer use the entire verse.  They always omit the second sentence.

Why?

Perhaps they'd always seen the first sentence quoted and genuinely had no idea the second sentence even existed.

However, I guess Christians are aware of the second sentence and maybe they like to put the billions of people who don't believe into one category as corrupt, abominable and doing no good. 

Yet, do Christians honestly believe that someone like Gandhi, did no good at all?  What do you find corrupt and vile about his works? 

Bob Geldof is a well-known atheist.  How many millions of lives has he saved through his work and effort?

If Christians really believe that great humanitarians like Andrew Carnegie and Bill Gates are corrupt and vile and have done no good then all I can say is that they've been twisted and distorted by theirr own beliefs.

I'd say that any believer who agrees with the second sentence is sick and had better be prepared to demonstrate that every unbeliever is corrupt, abominable and incapable of doing anything good.

Any believer who doesn't agree with the second part has a problem; They admit that the Bible is not always right, in which case they are not required to accept any of 14.1

Here's another scripture, this time from Alan's much vaunted New Testament:

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."

Revelation 21:8

To summarise:

In the first scripture, we're taught that unbelievers are corrupt, vile abominations that never do good. In the second, the love of Jesus tells us that unbelievers are abominable, all liars, and the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers.

And we all know how the believer's violent and judgemental god feels about such people, don't we? It must be good and right to feel that way, too, if Jesus does - right? Seems that in order to please him, Christians want to be just like Jesus and hate who he hates.  Right?, right?  The vile and abominable need to be hurt, don't they? It's a biblical principle.

[Khatru]

RUBBISH... you haven't the ability to understand the scriptures or the New Testament in a believers knowledge of truth.

Hmmm...do you think the above is on my list?


I don't understand because I need to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
I don't understand because I need to view it from a child's perspective
I don't understand because, unlike you, I'm not a "true Christian"
I don't understand because I'm not a biblical scholar
I don't understand because I took the scripture out of context.
I don't understand because it means something other than what it actually says
I don't understand because it's an allegory
I don't understand because my mind is far too feeble to comprehend your god's truth
I don't understand because I've not been filled with the holy spirit

[floo]

Sass doesn't understand, end of story!

It is daft to brand all unbelievers as being bad, anymore than it is to assert all believers are good. the Bible says some very foolish things, as well as some that are wise. But as it is a human creation, as I believe it to be, that isn't surprising.   

[Sassy]

Quote  Sassy on October 17, 2016, 10:55:36 AM
RUBBISH... you haven't the ability to understand the scriptures or the New Testament in a believers knowledge of truth.

Hmmm...do you think the above is on my list?


I don't understand because I need to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
I don't understand because I need to view it from a child's perspective
I don't understand because, unlike you, I'm not a "true Christian"
I don't understand because I'm not a biblical scholar
I don't understand because I took the scripture out of context.
I don't understand because it means something other than what it actually says
I don't understand because it's an allegory
I don't understand because my mind is far too feeble to comprehend your god's truth
I don't understand because I've not been filled with the holy spirit

The plain truth is that you have no understanding of the things I said or what the list is appertaining to because you do not know the bible. Epic fail on two counts for you. Should you really use excuses from a list done by people whom like yourself do not know the bible?

[floo]

Sass, people don't have an understanding of what you say, because most of it makes no sense whatsoever.