'Space is big. Really big.'

[Nearly Sane]

And even bigger than we thought

http://tinyurl.com/zq96k48

[floo]

No wonder god needed to rest on the seventh day!

[torridon]

And even bigger than we thought

http://tinyurl.com/zq96k48

That is just awesome.

As if what we thought before wasn't awesome anyway.

We cannot conceive of such immensity.

Extrapolating a quick fag packet based on a recent estimate of the incidence of habitable Earth-like planets gives a figure of 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 life-friendly planets.

I need a lie down just trying to think about it.

[Sriram]

But two entangled particles seem to influence one another instantaneously even across this immense universe!!!   Think of that....

In a simulated universe...space is just an illusion. The zoom-out pictures of the massive universe we see on TV are just bits and bytes on a CD.    It could be the same of the 'real' universe. Its all probably in the mind.

[Nearly Sane]

But two entangled particles seem to influence one another even across this immense universe!!!   Think of that....

In a simulated universe...space is just an illusion. The zoom-out pictures of the massive universe we see on TV are just bits and bytes on a CD.    It could be the same of the 'real' universe. Its all probably in the mind.

in a simulated universe, the mind would be a simulation

[Sriram]

in a simulated universe, the mind would be a simulation

True! But that depends on what we mean by the mind. The mind has several levels and some parts are connected to the body. That will be a simulation.

But the 'subject' and its Consciousness could still be an independent observer.

[Nearly Sane]

True! But that depends on what we mean by the mind. The mind has several levels and some parts are connected to the body. That will be a simulation.

But the 'subject' and its Consciousness could still be an independent observer.

but whatever is in the simulation is a simulation. the thing outside, if there is such a thing, is not the thing inside.

[Sriram]

but whatever is in the simulation is a simulation. the thing outside, if there is such a thing, is not the thing inside.

Yes...! But when we remove the headset (leave the body), we remain the subject.... while the world is just an experience and the body/mind is just a means to the experience. Till we leave the body.... we are a part of the experience.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes...! But when we remove the headset (leave the body), we remain the subject.... while the world is just an experience and the body/mind is just a means to the experience. Till we leave the body.... we are a part of the experience.

No, that's assuming that what is in here is somehow represented outside. When I kill something in a computer game, is something outside veunf killed?

[Sriram]

No, that's assuming that what is in here is somehow represented outside. When I kill something in a computer game, is something outside veunf killed?

I am obviously taking my cue from NDE's.

When you kill someone in the game, the person leaves his headset and takes up another to continue the game. You lose points in the bargain. 

[Nearly Sane]

I am obviously taking my cue from NDE's.

When you kill someone in the game, the person leaves his headset and takes up another to continue the game. You lose points in the bargain.

As they are internal, they are merely simulation as well

[Sriram]

As they are internal, they are merely simulation as well

What are internal?

[Nearly Sane]

What are internal?

The NDEs

[Sriram]

The NDEs

Why should they be? Only the body/mind is of this world. Outside the body, we are outside the simulation.

We can of course assume that there is a bigger simulation of which the 'other world' is also a part. That leads to infinite regress and  we can perhaps go into a pantheist perception of the world. Like the Advaita philosophy, only the universal spirit is real and everything else is maya. 

[Nearly Sane]

Because it's internal to the simulation. And the whole justification behind the idea of simulations leads to an infinite regress

[Sriram]

Because it's internal to the simulation. And the whole justification behind the idea of simulations leads to an infinite regress

Yes...I have said that.

But we are assuming that the other world also has to necessarily be a simulation.

If we go only by what we know today....that is... people who have NDE's leave their bodies and see their bodies from the outside. They do not feel any connection with their bodies or the physical world. Based on this, I assume that the physical world is like a simulation such that, once we leave the body we leave behind these experiences, similar to removing the VR headset. That is all it is.

We don't have any information to assume that the other world is also a simulation and that there is something similar to death in that world also. Maybe there isn't.

[Nearly Sane]

No, the reason why there is an infinite regress is the reason for assuming a simulation in the first place.

I don't feel any connection with the physical world when I am dreaming - is that the game downtime?

[Sriram]

No, the reason why there is an infinite regress is the reason for assuming a simulation in the first place.

I don't feel any connection with the physical world when I am dreaming - is that the game downtime?

I am not claiming to have all the answers...but the sleeping and dreaming could be something like a rest time or a rejuvenation. If fact we do know that it is a rest and rejuvenation. Doctors tell us so.

[Sebastian Toe]

And even bigger than we thought

http://tinyurl.com/zq96k48

However big it is, it is never going to be as big a Sassy's ego!
 

[torridon]

The idea of a simulation, as I understand it, would be closer to things like climate models.  The computer is programmed with rules and in the case of reality simulation the rules would be the base laws of physics.  Set some initial conditions and let it go.  Cosmologists do this already to put constraints on theoretical models of galaxy formation, the idea of virtual reality is taking it further to model in the development of high order sentience. Particles, once instantiated, cluster under primary forces into larger groups to form atoms, molecules, planets, and so on; but all particles are slightly sentient and so minds occur as a temporary nexus of sentience. I don't see how this could mean that the entire simulation cold equate to a mind as evidence from our simulation (if that is what it is) is that minds form as a local temporary nexus of sentience just as planets form as a local temporary nexus of particles. 

But we are still left with the problem that the program running the simulation would itself be a nexus of complexity in a simulation in some higher space according to this logic.

[Sriram]

The idea of a simulation, as I understand it, would be closer to things like climate models.  The computer is programmed with rules and in the case of reality simulation the rules would be the base laws of physics.  Set some initial conditions and let it go.  Cosmologists do this already to put constraints on theoretical models of galaxy formation, the idea of virtual reality is taking it further to model in the development of high order sentience. Particles, once instantiated, cluster under primary forces into larger groups to form atoms, molecules, planets, and so on; but all particles are slightly sentient and so minds occur as a temporary nexus of sentience. I don't see how this could mean that the entire simulation cold equate to a mind as evidence from our simulation (if that is what it is) is that minds form as a temporary nexus of sentience just as planets form as a temporary nexus of particles. 

But we are still left with the problem that the program running the simulation would itself be a nexus of complexity in a simulation in some higher space according to this logic.

I am not going by any imaginary models or idle musings of what things might be.   I am going entirely by NDE's that millions of people have.  You might dismiss them as brain generated hallucinations...but I, like many researchers, take them seriously. 

So...going entirely by these experiences...we have enough information to say that this physical world is perhaps like a simulation from which we go away when we die.....only to 'play' again in another body.   There is no information with us to assume that the simulation extends further into another world beyond that and so on. 

Goodnight!

[jeremyp]

You might think it's a long way down to the shops, but that's just peanuts compared to space.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

OK...let us leave the NDE bit out for some time and focus on the behaviour of entangled elementary particles. They seem to instantaneously influence  one another across massive distances. So...what do you think is happening here?   

[Nearly Sane]

Hi everyone,

OK...let us leave the NDE bit out for some time and focus on the behaviour of entangled elementary particles. They seem to instantaneously influence  one another across massive distances. So...what do you think is happening here?

I would be a follower of the theories of the great Bulgarian physicist, Fuctivanov, on this

[BeRational]

Sriram

Perhaps the entangled particles communicate in a different dimension?

In that case they are never far away from each other and only appear to be in our 4 dimensions?