'Space is big. Really big.'

[torridon]

Hi everyone,

OK...let us leave the NDE bit out for some time and focus on the behaviour of entangled elementary particles. They seem to instantaneously influence  one another across massive distances. So...what do you think is happening here?

Entanglement as a concept happens at all levels in the classical world, however it is quantum entanglement that is giving us headaches trying to figure out the base nature of reality.  It is not just confined to elementary particles however, we have managed now to create quantum entangled living things - virus and bacteria, but the bigger the object the harder it is to preserve quantum uncertainty, which is why it is so hard to build working quantum computers.  Einstein once joked, mocking the Copenhagen Interpretation, that the Moon is not there when no one is looking at it, but the reason it seems to be there all the time is that it is a really large object, too large to remain isolated for long.  We can only glimpse these strange effects experimentally with tiny things that we can isolate from interaction with the rest of the cosmos.

[Sriram]

I would be a follower of the theories of the great Bulgarian physicist, Fuctivanov, on this

It would be helpful if you could briefly outline his ideas.

[Sriram]

Sriram

Perhaps the entangled particles communicate in a different dimension?

In that case they are never far away from each other and only appear to be in our 4 dimensions?

What does that mean?  Explaining a bizarre phenomenon with a more bizarre concept does not seem to be helpful.

[Sriram]

Entanglement as a concept happens at all levels in the classical world, however it is quantum entanglement that is giving us headaches trying to figure out the base nature of reality.  It is not just confined to elementary particles however, we have managed now to create quantum entangled living things - virus and bacteria, but the bigger the object the harder it is to preserve quantum uncertainty, which is why it is so hard to build working quantum computers.  Einstein once joked, mocking the Copenhagen Interpretation, that the Moon is not there when no one is looking at it, but the reason it seems to be there all the time is that it is a really large object, too large to remain isolated for long.  We can only glimpse these strange effects experimentally with tiny things that we can isolate from interaction with the rest of the cosmos.

So...you are saying that even large objects like ourselves could get entangled and could influence one another instantaneously across the universe?!  Noticing the effect however might be difficult.

[BeRational]

What does that mean?  Explaining a bizarre phenomenon with a more bizarre concept does not seem to be helpful.

String theory posits more invisible dimensions.
If there are more dimensions then perhaps in one dimension everything is very close.
Things only appear distant in the dimensions we are aware of.

[Sriram]

String theory posits more invisible dimensions.
If there are more dimensions then perhaps in one dimension everything is very close.
Things only appear distant in the dimensions we are aware of.

Hi BeRational,

Yes...I know of the seven dimensions that are said to be wrapped around the String.

But IMO a dimension need not be in terms of space and distances only.  Just as Time is said to be the fourth dimension, other dimensions could be other aspects of reality that we normally observe but do not realize as being in another dimension. For example, our mind itself could be a fifth dimension and maybe the unconscious mind is the sixth dimension.

Life is a mystery and we are getting habituated to 'understanding' it. This is because of our Need to Understand. We have begun to think that by giving in to this need we are doing something exceptional and wonderful. At one stage of development this may be right, but at later stages it may become a hindrance.

If we controlled the Need to Understand just as we control our other needs, we might observe Reality more vividly.

Just some thoughts.

[BeRational]

Hi BeRational,

Yes...I know of the seven dimensions that are said to be wrapped around the String.

But IMO a dimension need not be in terms of space and distances only.  Just as Time is said to be the fourth dimension, other dimensions could be other aspects of reality that we normally observe but do not realize as being in another dimension. For example, our mind itself could be a fifth dimension and maybe the unconscious mind is the sixth dimension.

Life is a mystery and we are getting habituated to 'understanding' it. This is because of our Need to Understand. We have begun to think that by giving in to this need we are doing something exceptional and wonderful. At one stage of development this may be right, but at later stages it may become a hindrance.

If we controlled the Need to Understand just as we control our other needs, we might observe Reality more vividly.

Just some thoughts.

just guessing about stuff is a good start. But, you need to move from a guess to gather evidence to support the guess.
I posited the 7th dimension as a guess to being a dimension that has zero spacial size but is everywhere in our 4 dimensions.
This is great as it can then answer why particles seemingly far apart are actually not far apart at all.

Great, I have made up and answer and made it fit what we see happen. So what?
We can all do that, jut make up stuff.

What we do NOT do, is accept these made up answers. We need to find out first of all if there are hidden dimensions and how they work. I think some string theories (as there are a few) have more dimensions than others.

You seem to like just being in the made up part.

[Sriram]

just guessing about stuff is a good start. But, you need to move from a guess to gather evidence to support the guess.
I posited the 7th dimension as a guess to being a dimension that has zero spacial size but is everywhere in our 4 dimensions.
This is great as it can then answer why particles seemingly far apart are actually not far apart at all.

Great, I have made up and answer and made it fit what we see happen. So what?
We can all do that, jut make up stuff.

What we do NOT do, is accept these made up answers. We need to find out first of all if there are hidden dimensions and how they work. I think some string theories (as there are a few) have more dimensions than others.

You seem to like just being in the made up part.

And you really think all these many dimensions and Strings are actually going to be proved some day?!

[BeRational]

And you really think all these many dimensions and Strings are actually going to be proved some day?!

No idea.

I just used them to make up an answer that fitted a problem of entangled particles to show that making stuff up is not enough.

Evidence that supports your position is what is needed.

You seem happy with just making stuff up and forget about the evidence is the point I am making.

[Sriram]

No idea.

I just used them to make up an answer that fitted a problem of entangled particles to show that making stuff up is not enough.

Evidence that supports your position is what is needed.

You seem happy with just making stuff up and forget about the evidence is the point I am making.

What stuff have I made up about entangled particles influencing one another?!

[BeRational]

What stuff have I made up about entangled particles influencing one another?!

NDE stuff is just made up to explain something you find interesting.

It is not currently known how entangled particles influence each other.

So the honest answer is "we do not know". If  you say more than that without evidence, then you are just making stuff up.

[Sriram]

NDE stuff is just made up to explain something you find interesting.

It is not currently known how entangled particles influence each other.

So the honest answer is "we do not know". If  you say more than that without evidence, then you are just making stuff up.

What have NDE's got to do with entanglement and elementary particles?  I was referring to NDE's in a different context related to simulation and virtual reality.

At any rate, there is more evidence for the 'other world' through NDE's than for seven dimensions wrapped around a String.

[BeRational]

What have NDE's got to do with entanglement and elementary particles?  I was referring to NDE's in a different context related to simulation and virtual reality.

At any rate, there is more evidence for the 'other world' through NDE's than for seven dimensions wrapped around a String.

No there is not.

There is no evidence for NDE that is not rebutted by what we know about brain function.

You are just making stuff up

[Sriram]

No there is not.

There is no evidence for NDE that is not rebutted by what we know about brain function.

You are just making stuff up

I am not making up anything. NDE's actually happen. I am just not accepting the hallucinations hypothesis to explain these experiences, that is all.

[BeRational]

I am not making up anything. NDE's actually happen. I am just not accepting the hallucinations hypothesis to explain these experiences, that is all.

NDE do NOT point to anything other than brain function.

If you say it does then you need evidence, otherwise you are just accepting assertions.

[Sriram]

NDE do NOT point to anything other than brain function.

If you say it does then you need evidence, otherwise you are just accepting assertions.

Ok...thanks!

[BeRational]

Ok...thanks!

You're welcome.