Response to Vlad's Post 96::
Since I consider God to be absolute morality and secular people in general do not hold with moral realism in any case I have to confess to some amusement over a claim to be more moral than Jesus.
Don't worry about it, Vlad. I occasionally am amused by your statements too, not often, but occasionally. Actually though I aren't claiming to be more moral than Jesus(according to the gospels, of course). I simply said that on this particular point, my personal view of slavery is that it is wrong. If I were then to accept that his sayings were the inspired word of God, He comes across as having nothing clear and unambiguous to say about slavery being wrong,(indeed, even at times seeming to condone it), therefore I have no recourse other than saying that my sense of morality (as appertaining to slavery) seems better than the one presented by the Jesus of the gospels. No absolute morality required.
That aside you are but one view point in a line of those claiming Jesus moral shortcomings of which, historically the zealots would be the first.
Don't forget that only one moral aspect has been mentioned here, Vlad, and that is dependent on the view that the gospels are the inspired word of God. As I aren't a zealot in any historical or even in the modern sense of the word, this really has no significance to me.
Christ was not a zealot for the reason that his kingdom was not of this earth and his mission one of personal salvation for people. Practically speaking as well Jesus knew that the mission for personal salvation would not proceed through the immediate re establishment of the Jewish state. Paul knew that the mission of demonstrating the new life would be jeopardised if Christianity turned into a slave rebellion. People have found the mission of Jesus to be transformative and secular legislation often to be merely administrative bluster if the will for enforcement is not there.
This is God you're talking about. So He is prepared to ignore human suffering if it is brought about by other humans on the basis that this is the only way that the salvation aspect of Christianity may flourish. Yet He is able to do the most wonderful supernatural healing when He so chooses. Strange that this supernatural agent of yours is, as you say, so bound by the 'practical'. To me, what it does seem to suggest is that your God is unwilling/unable to have relieved the suffering of brought about by slavery.
Instead of saying ''boy isn't the sentiment of people like meself wonderful and better than Jesus'' perhaps we ought to be wondering how modern slavery could have happened in a secular society that is better than the one Jesus lived in.
You're making things up again, Vlad...presumably to present your case in a much better light, unless you are not referring to me at all when you say. 'boy isn't the sentiment of people like meself wonderful and better than Jesus'. If you are referring to me however, you couldn't be more wrong. I have never said that having any moral position or 'sentiment' is 'wonderful'. Indeed, I find many of my moral positions are very challenging and hard fought, often requiring a great deal of thought as well as emotion, but never, to my mind, 'wonderful' at all. Indeed, I so often fail to live up to my moral feelings because of my human weaknesses. 'Better than Jesus'? I very much doubt it. Again, if you are referring to me, try not to use the blunderbuss approach. It's beneath you, and it gets you nowhere. I am only saying that my sense of morality (as appertaining to slavery) seems better than the one presented by the Jesus of the gospels. No more. no less.
I have already suggested that the penchant for slavery is a quality ingrained in human beings. We should always be on guard to prevent it appearing as much as possible because it causes such distress to human beings. Unfortunately it can often be justified by a variety of pervasive and rigid ideologies. It seems to me that one of the first things to do is to criminalise it wherever it may occur, and then act with vigour upon such laws, hopefully reducing it to a minimum.
