The Divinity of Scripture

[Hope]

Jesus did NOT fulfill ALL Jewish criteria for Messiahship - FULL STOP !!!
THAT'S why he was executed as per Jewish religious law - fact !!!

Nick

Which idea of 'Messiah' are you talking about, Nick?  The one that dates from the 4th or 5th century BC, or the older, more traditional one that predates David and others?  The politico-militaristic concept is the later of the two.

[Owlswing]

Which idea of 'Messiah' are you talking about, Nick?  The one that dates from the 4th or 5th century BC, or the older, more traditional one that predates David and others?  The politico-militaristic concept is the later of the two.

Wriggle - wriggle - wriggle -  when are you going to stop twisting words and history to suit YOUR version of the Bible's contents while totally ignoring ther fact that MOST, the vast majority of, in fact, Christians know next door to nothing about the origins in both language and history of it contents and care a great deal less!

They read the Bible as the "revealed word of God" and accept it quite literally without question. Over the years your attachment to the Bible and your god and your total detachment from real truth has been demonstrated thousands of times, not all of which, thank the Goddess, I have read or would want to, bullshit in defense of the indefensible gets boring very very quickly.

[Sassy]

It is amazing the that the RC are so jealous of Gods chosen people because even though they did not all recongise the Messiah, till the number of Gentiles called, they still have a covenant which will not change for them. As the Jews are still Gods chosen ones and we also now are Jews too with circumcision of heart.

As for atheists, their beliefs about what the Jews believe do not count. Jews today who are messianic Jews know why Christ is the Messiah. God opens the ears and the eyes of the hearts which love him.
More importantly he never changes his mind about those whom he has called. You see Abraham taught a very clear lesson when Christ said of this with Lazarus and Dives. " If they did not listen to the Prophets they will not believe if someone should rise from the dead."  Believers now and then believe because they trust God and so obey the Prophets and Christ.

How can anyone who does not love God understand the things of God or from God. Never mind judge those who do.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

#201

Which idea of 'Messiah' are you talking about, Nick?  The one that dates from the 4th or 5th century BC, or the older, more traditional one that predates David and others?  The politico-militaristic concept is the later of the two.

Over the years your attachment to the Bible and your god and your total detachment from real truth has been demonstrated thousands of times, ....

detachment from real truth?

Then where is this real truth to disprove Hope's assertions?

[ad_orientem]

Sass,

You show oncw again that you are a rank heretic. The Church is the one true Israel of God, he's chosen people. Messianic Jews are no better than the Judaisers of St. Paul's time for they still cling on to Moses. They must have faith in the most holy Trinity and be baptised into the Church. I have no idea why you keep mentioning Rome. Maybe you're just not very bright.

[floo]

Sass,

You show oncw again that you are a eank heretic. The Church is the one true Israel of God, he's chosen people. Messianic Jews are no better than the Judaisers of St. Paul's time for they still cling on to Moses. They must have faith in the most holy Trinity and be baptised into the Church. I have no idea why you keep mentioning Rome. Maybe you're just not very btight.

You and Sass have a lot in common, daft statements without evidence to support them!

[Brownie]

Sassy: It is amazing the that the RC are so jealous of Gods chosen people

We ain't jealous!  All that is well in the past.  Jews and Catholics seem to get on fine nowadays, they understand eachother.   Catholics don't try to convert them (or anyone else) any more either.  That is one thing I like about my old church, especially since Vat 2, it has learned from past mistakes.

Of course, there are a few extremists, members of fringe organisations, who make headlines occasionally.  Also arch-traditionalists.

(I don't think there are any practicing Catholics on here atm.)

Ad-O, I know I've said it before and I mean no disrespect but some of the things you say sound as though you have learned them from a book and not thought around the subject.

[ad_orientem]

Most modern Christians only know a modernist faith, so they may well think that, Vic. Even as an RC I only really attended traditional liturgies (SSPX and FSSP). This is what I have learned from the Church, its ancient liturgies and from the holy fathers. It is the Apostolic faith, something which has been believed for almost 2000 years. What Vatican II has to say is, quite frankly, rank heresy.

[trippymonkey]

How can anyone who does not love God understand the things of God or from God. Never mind judge those who do.

What a pity Sass so obviously believes NOBODY can love God unless they're HER version of a Christian, eh?

Nick

[floo]

Which is unique to Sass!

[Brownie]

Most modern Christians only know a modernist faith, so they may well think that, Vic. Even as an RC I only really attended traditional liturgies (SSPX and FSSP). This is what I have learned from the Church, its ancient liturgies and from the holy fathers. It is the Apostolic faith, something which has been believed for almost 2000 years. What Vatican II has to say is, quite frankly, rank heresy.

Well I never knew you used to be a Catholic, ad_o!  You have something in common with our old posting pal, Paleologus (?sp), aka MTV on the Beeb, who wanted something more authentic which he believed he found when he became Orthodox.  He wouldn't talk about it much though.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

[Hope]

Wriggle - wriggle - wriggle -  when are you going to stop twisting words and history to suit YOUR version of the Bible's contents while totally ignoring ther fact that MOST, the vast majority of, in fact, Christians know next door to nothing about the origins in both language and history of it contents and care a great deal less!

I think you will find that, whilst there is some truth in your comment, many more Christians - both in the Orthodox and RC sections of the church and the Protestant/evangelistic sections - take an interest in the Bible's language and history of its contents than you like to think.  That is why I 'ignore' the so-called facts that you so love to claim.  As for 'twisting words and history', perhaps you need to do a bit more research into the language and history of the Bible's contents before spouting off in the way you do.  I do try to keep up with scholarship in the matter, and having a few friends in that particular area of life, from a variety of approaches, some religious and some not.

They read the Bible as the "revealed word of God" and accept it quite literally without question. Over the years your attachment to the Bible and your god and your total detachment from real truth has been demonstrated thousands of times, not all of which, thank the Goddess, I have read or would want to, bullshit in defense of the indefensible gets boring very very quickly.

Good to see you resorting to abuse when it becomes clear that your arguments are less than effective.

[ad_orientem]

Well I never knew you used to be a Catholic, ad_o!  You have something in common with our old posting pal, Paleologus (?sp), aka MTV on the Beeb, who wanted something more authentic which he believed he found when he became Orthodox.  He wouldn't talk about it much though.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Yes, we followed very similar paths, though I never knew he was on the BBC boards. Still in touch with him on Facebook.

[Brownie]

Excellent.  Please say, "Hi", to him from me.  I hope he and his family are well.

[Sassy]

Sass,

You show oncw again that you are a rank heretic. The Church is the one true Israel of God, he's chosen people.

The problem with your judgement like your findings it has no place in the Church of Christ or the teachings of Christ.
They are manmade and they disobey God because you are so wrapped up in the teachings of man you forget and ignore the teachings of Christ himself.

One Church built on knowing Christ is the Messiah and Son of God. A faith that changes men and that comes through baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Roman Catholic Church tried to establish themselves as the Church of Christ but it has never known God or Jesus Christ it is purely manmade built on flesh not God.

Messianic Jews are no better than the Judaisers of St. Paul's time for they still cling on to Moses. They must have faith in the most holy Trinity and be baptised into the Church. I have no idea why you keep mentioning Rome. Maybe you're just not very bright.

Rome like Jerusalem has no power. As Christ taught...

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

The People and Church of God are those born of Spirit and Truth. They are everywhere and no city on earth holds the Kingdom of God as Christ taught the Kingdom of God is within us.  So go back to your drawing board and ask God himself, (if you can find him) what the truth is that Christ taught and why NOTHING can prevail against it.

The problem with today is everyone wants to be the true Church but the truth is only those born of Spirit and Truth are the true Church. The gate is narrow and not everyone finds it. But man has used for centuries the truth about Christ to their own ends.
God and Christ wants us to love God and others not rule them.

[Sassy]

What a pity Sass so obviously believes NOBODY can love God unless they're HER version of a Christian, eh?

Nick

If you knew what the bible says a Christian is., you could judge couldn't you. Instead you make an unfounded allegation
but are unable to sustain whether the real believer is that born of Spirit and Truth.
As for loving God, how would you know what it means to love God... Version of Christians...entirely your own making up.
Because there is only one type of Christian those born of Spirit and Truth and guess how that happens?

Why not learn something about Christian and tell us what you think the difference is...

[Ricky Spanish]

Jesus never knew Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke or John.

Why should we believe anything they have to say about him?

[ad_orientem]

Jesus never knew Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke or John.

Why should we believe anything they have to say about him?

You have no proof.

[floo]

If you knew what the bible says a Christian is., you could judge couldn't you. Instead you make an unfounded allegation
but are unable to sustain whether the real believer is that born of Spirit and Truth.
As for loving God, how would you know what it means to love God... Version of Christians...entirely your own making up.
Because there is only one type of Christian those born of Spirit and Truth and guess how that happens?

Why not learn something about Christian and tell us what you think the difference is...

The gospel according to Sass!

[Ricky Spanish]

Emm

Prove to me that Jesus actually met Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke or John and taught them, then we can discuss it.. 

[ad_orientem]

Emm

Prove to me that Jesus actually met Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke or John and taught them, then we can discuss it..

We have this knowledge passed on through the Church. You have the conjectures of atheists, apostates and rabbis. I know which one I choose.

[floo]

We have this knowledge passed on through the Church. You have the conjectures of atheists, apostates and rabbis. I know which one I choose.

You have tradition not knowledge!

[Sassy]

Jesus never knew Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke or John.

Why should we believe anything they have to say about him?

You don't have to believe anything about Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.
Because it is irrelevant in the great scheme of things to you and others who think as you do.
What everyone needs is to be able to know for themselves the truth about Christ and how mankind has always received the
the truth from God. Baptism of the Holy Spirit a theme running right through the OT. One which Christ professed and even those above. That the Holy Spirit teaches men and women of God.

It is your own understanding which reveals from Gods written word the things which are truth and the way in which men receive them. You can ponder those things and you can understand those things. But when you choose NOT TO WANT  those things.
Then that is purely a matter between you and God.

[Sassy]

We have this knowledge passed on through the Church. You have the conjectures of atheists, apostates and rabbis. I know which one I choose.

The real Church has Christ and the Holy Spirit.  One teacher and it certainly isn't knowledge passed down by men to men.

John 16:13. (KJV)
13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1 john 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

God has given us a teacher who has taught every child of God since the beginning of time. King David knew him and so did Christ. All who come to God through Christ knows the baptism of the Holy Spirit is where the believers learns the truth from.

[floo]

Your 'truth' is of your own creation Sass!