The Divinity of Scripture

[SusanDoris]

SusanDoris: On what is the confidence based that allows you to be so sure that you are right and religious believers are wrong?

You mentioned theology (or theologians) a few posts back.  Can you give me one fact that theologians, including past and present ones, famous or otherwise, know, actually know about God? I am not asking about what they might believe they know, from the words and beliefs of their predecessors, but just one fact they know.

[Gordon]

Then on what is the confidence based that allows some to be so sure that they are right and religious believers are wrong?

You're doing it again with terms like 'right' and 'wrong', which betrays your simplistic understanding of your interlocutors if that is what you think is happening.

It would be more the case that the rebuttals you've had to date place your arguments, to use the well known phrase attributed to Wolfgang Pauli, in the 'not even wrong' category, such as by dint of them being fallacious - hence they can be simply dismissed as being poor argumentation.   

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

You mentioned theology (or theologians) a few posts back.  Can you give me one fact that theologians, including past and present ones, famous or otherwise, know, actually know about God? I am not asking about what they might believe they know, from the words and beliefs of their predecessors, but just one fact they know.

Not sure this answers my question:

SusanDoris: On what is the confidence based that allows you to be so sure that you are right and religious believers are wrong?

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

You're doing it again with terms like 'right' and 'wrong', which betrays your simplistic understanding of your interlocutors if that is what you think is happening.

Right. I'm sure no atheist here has ever said (or even implied) that religious belief is wrong or that an individual is wrong to believe. It's never happened in the history of this forum?

[Owlswing]

Which is interesting because, despite what you say, there are a numerous amount of threads where the posts of Christians are challenged. I would have expected this forum to be then full of Christians discussing all sort of theological issues, but that is not the case.

Tomorrow is another day. I wonder how many challenges to what Hope, Sassy, Vlad, or other Christians will be challenged. My guess will be that the answer is not zero.

You and some others are so sure that you are right and religious believers are wrong. It must really get to you that you can't prove it!

You really are a case you know - we are giving an opinion that is a negative, which as you are so fond of pointing out, it is impossible to prove.

Therefore, you, who are arguing a positive are the ones who must provide the proof that your god exists - so far you have proved nothing - nada - zip!

And you will continue to do so!

Why?

As I, and others far better qualified than I, have pointed out before ALL RELIGIONS are matters of FAITH NOT FACT!

Now do, at least me, a bloody huge favour, please - either put up or shut up!

NO MORE WRIGGLING - PROVE HE EXISTS,  BY CONCRETE FACT (i e NOT the Bible) or, and I put this so bluntly it is likely to get modded just to show how fed up with your nonsense I am:


SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[Owlswing]

Not sure this answers my question:

WRIGGLE WRIGGLE WRIGGLE WRIGGLE WRIGGLE


Go back to the beginning and answer the question that you were asked -POST A FACT - NOT ANOTHER QUESTION!

[Gordon]

Right. I'm sure no atheist here has ever said (or even implied) that religious belief is wrong or that an individual is wrong to believe. It's never happened in the history of this forum?

If an argument is fallacious or incoherent it doesn't get as far as being 'wrong': the argument simply fails, and the only issue of note then is whether the person making the argument understands why it has failed.  On that basis I'd say that such a person would be unjustified in holding the beliefs they do, however sincerely they hold them, because of flaws in their reasoning - such as those described by different fallacies. 

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

NO MORE WRIGGLING - PROVE HE EXISTS,  BY CONCRETE FACT (i e NOT the Bible) or, and I put this so bluntly it is likely to get modded just to show how fed up with your nonsense I am:

(expletive removed)

You are fed up with my nonsense? Why? What is it that compels you to read it? If you and others don't believe God exists, why haven't you got better things to do with you time?

The problem you have is that religious belief falsifies your position. You can't hack it because you can't disprove it, yet while it exists, there is just the outside possibility that it may be true, and that will puncture the balloon that is your atheism.

A piece of advice: Go away and find positive reasons for your atheism.

[SusanDoris]

Owlswing

because |I dislike sarcasm, I avoid using it, but I have to say it is quite hard not to allow just the teensiest bit to creep into responses to SotS.

[Gordon]

(expletive removed)

A piece of advice: Go away and find positive reasons for your atheism.

You do know that Owlswing isn't an atheist.

[Owlswing]

A piece of advice: Go away and find positive reasons for your atheism.

Clearly you do not read what is posted here (I'm breaking the ignore rule just this once to show just what a fool you are!)

I am not an atheist - I am a Pagan, a polytheist. I follow a religion and deities, male and female, that predate your pathetic Johnny-(or Jesus)come-lately by at least 20,000 years!

And I am willing to admit that my religious beliefs and my belief in my deities are matters of faith not fact. It is a shame that only one of your lot, amd only very recently (today), has finally had the 'nads to actually agree with this statement for his belief in YOUR god!.

[SusanDoris]

Well, I'm going to shut down now, but I do so hope my computer does not do tomorrow which it did yesterday and today - come up with, 'This page cannot be displayed' because I really don't want to miss anything!!
It only happens on this forum.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Clearly you do not read what is posted here (I'm breaking the ignore rule just this once to show just what a fool you are!)

I am not an atheist - I am a Pagan, a polytheist. I follow a religion and deities, male and female, that predate your pathetic Johnny-(or Jesus)come-lately by at least 20,000 years!

And I am willing to admit that my religious beliefs and my belief in my deities are matters of faith not fact. It is a shame that only one of your lot, amd only very recently (today), has finally had the 'nads to actually agree with this statement for his belief in YOUR god!.

Perhaps we can fast forward then to a time when the Christians, like all other people of religion have left this forum leaving pagans and salivating atheist ready to ''feast on their flesh''. They will ask you, being the final theists, what is it which differentiates your Gods from ''made up shit''. What account will you give to that question?

[Aruntraveller]

Perhaps we can fast forward then to a time when the Christians, like all other people of religion have left this forum leaving pagans and salivating atheist ready to ''feast on their flesh''. They will ask you, being the final theists, what is it which differentiates your Gods from ''made up shit''. What account will you give to that question?

Do you need help finding the exit?

[Owlswing]

Perhaps we can fast forward then to a time when the Christians, like all other people of religion have left this forum leaving pagans and salivating atheist ready to ''feast on their flesh''. They will ask you, being the final theists, what is it which differentiates your Gods from ''made up shit''. What account will you give to that question?

You really are . . . . (insert expletive of your own choice)!

How many more times do I have to say this before it finally sinks into that 2.5 to 3 pounds of cold and stagnant porridge that you fondly imagine operates as a brain.

I have never claimed that I have any proof tht my deities/gods/goddesses exist anywhere but in my belief - they are a matter of faith, not of fact.

It is your pathetic Christian insistence that your deity and his witch/magician son are real that cause the friction between  them and atheists and pagans.

If there comes "a time when the Christians, like all other people of religion, have left this forum leaving pagans and salivating atheist(s)", the forum will get back to proper discussions that are not constantly derailed by specious arguments about possibly non-existent dieties.

Zeus, Thor, Odin, Herne, Cernunnos, Cerydwyn, Freya, send that day soon, please!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you need help finding the exit?

Yes you'd love that wouldn't you a religion and ethics debating forum made up of atheists:

Gordon: God doesn't exist
Trent: You're wrong he really doesn't exist.
Ippy: No he really, really doesn't exist.

The forum will truly resemble a roman toilet. Rows of you all shitting into the same trough......

[Aruntraveller]

Yes you'd love that wouldn't you a religion and ethics debating forum made up of atheists:

Gordon: God doesn't exist
Trent: You're wrong he really doesn't exist.
Ippy: No he really, really doesn't exist.

The forum will truly resemble a roman toilet. Rows of you all shitting into the same trough......

Well no I wouldn't as it happens. I enjoy your posting. But you seem to be suggesting that was what you thought would happen. Wanted to make sure that your ideas were helped along and fully realised. Of course if that wasn't what you really wanted, carry on.

Oh and toilet humour - it has to be a little more subtle than that - otherwise you just come over as a bitter, twisted, polished turd.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

you just come over as a bitter, twisted, polished turd.

Oi, less of the bitter and twisted.

[Aruntraveller]

Oi, less of the bitter and twisted.

  

[Sassy]

If you are going to post, please, at least, get your terminology correct.

Pagans pre-date Christianinty by thousands of years.

Christianity is the fulfillment of the Jewish faith. Which predates all pagan beliefs and others to the beginning of the world with Adam the very first man.

Sometimes... Pagans changed their beliefs to fit in with the religions of the times.
But it requires proper study to reveal these things and reading books which are not bias towards other beliefs.
All through the OT we see that the word pagan is really just another for Gentile.

The Israelites always drawn away by the pagan worship of Baal.

Modern Pagans do not exist.

Off course they do, they just omit the old sacrificing of children etc because they are trying to disassociate themselves with the real evil that once was paganism worship.

There are two kinds of Pagans around now; Neo-pagans (neo = new (not Modern)) who take what is known of early paganism, the deities and their attributes and the powers of nature that the deities controlled and used and create their rituals around that knowledge; Reconstrutionist Pagans who go to great lengths to try and re-create exactly the rites and rituals of the ancients.

Both omitting the evil ways and trying to distance themselves from the most horrific acts that even the Israelites were told off for doing when they got involved with them.

Both, in their way, modern (small 'm'), timewise, modern but the beliefs, all of are older than yours.

No they are not because Christianity is just a word. Jew is the real term for Christians and their belief goes back to God and the first man.  Even the ancestors are all the way back to Adam....

[Sassy]

and my dad is bigger than your dad.

Moderator: content removed. Please note that speculation on the identity of new posters as being some other poster is by  off topic. Should members have reason to think any poster is a banned poster, then this should be raised by PM to the mods

[Sassy]

Your God is supposed to be a person, yet no-one in over 2,000 years has ever seen him.

But many have seen his actions...
Many have received the things God can do and what he promises.
Does he have to materialise to see his words come to pass.
Not really a sensible answer was it?

Every other person who has ever lived had been seen by at least one other person.

So let me see... We know Adam saw God and so did Eve but somehow that doesn't count to you. So why should you believe anyone else existed before you because SOMEONE ELSE saw them?

(Your digging a hole for yourself, now.)

Thus there is physical proof that each and every one of those other people has existed; contrary to your God which no-one has ever seen.

Well Jesus Christ is one whom I can think off who showed proof God existed by all that he did.
He was witnessed by literally thousands doing his healing and feeding them. Seems physical proof isn't really your bag after all.

The burden of proof therefore is on you not us!

You prove everyone who has been seen by another has existed throughout the world.
Seems you're willing to accept this proof as an example but you cannot provide proof of what you believe.
Also thousands saw Christ but you don't believe. Come on you are having a laugh with us. It is November 1st not April.

But please don't bother to try - your fellow Christians have been dodging this challenge all the way back to the old Beeb R and E forum, so most on here have heard all the excuses, prevarications, and fallacious arguments a hundred times before. Both your question and lack of an answer to my question have rendered such conversations about three-hundred miles west of boring to the point of causing suicides so don't bother.

Where was the challenge I missed it?.... So when you are ready with your proof and evidence not based on merely faith all those fellow Christians will know what everyone here knows. Your arguments do not carry water and have not been well thought out.

[floo]

More Sass assertions with no evidence to back them up!

[Sebastian Toe]

So let me see... We know Adam saw God and so did Eve

How do you know that?

[floo]

How do you know that?

Sass and god are best buddies!