Tomb of Jesus being opened.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Here is an article about the tomb of Jesus in Jerusalem.

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/jesuss-tomb-opened-for-first-time-in-centuries-1586598?pfrom=home-lateststories

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Preservation experts have opened for the first time in at least two centuries what Christians believe is Jesus's tomb inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

Some of the historic work was witnessed by AFP photographer Gali Tibbon who captured images of the site believed to contain the rock upon which Jesus was laid in around 33 AD as it was uncovered as part of ongoing restoration at the site.

It was the first time the marble had been removed since at least 1810, when the last restoration work took place following a fire, and possibly earlier, said Father Samuel Aghoyan, the church's Armenian superior.

"My knees are shaking a little bit," Fred Hiebert, an archaeologist-in-residence at the National Geographic Society, said in a video on the magazine's website during the work at the shrine.

A shrine was built in the 19th century over the site of the cave where Jesus is believed to have been buried before his resurrection, and it is visited by throngs of tourists and pilgrims each day.

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For information.

Sriram

[Hope]

If I remember correctly, it was Helena, the mother of the Emperor Constantine, who decided which tomb was THE tomb.  Not sure what archeaological qualifications she had to make this decision.  Not sure that there had been much interest in which empty tomb was the tomb used for his temporary resting place prior to that.

[Brownie]

You say, "...where Jesus is believed to have buried before his resurrection", Sririam.

What Hope said.
If the remains of a body is found, we'll not it's not Jesus's  .

As an aside, I'm not comfortable with excavating tombs or pyramids or the like.  They are of archeological, and other, interest of course but there is something distasteful about digging up bodies or remains of them unless there is a sound reason, forensics or something of that ilk.  When that is necessary, in this country, the police and forensic experts have to apply for special permission and it's done late or early, with no-one else around, out of respect.  Yet archeologists can dig anyone up willy nilly because the dead have no relatives still alive to consult!  Just my feelings.

[floo]

If the tomb is that of Jesus and there is a body inside it, it is likely to be his. Not that there is any way of proving it as we don't have copies of his DNA!

[Sriram]

You say, "...where Jesus is believed to have buried before his resurrection", Sririam.

What Hope said.
If the remains of a body is found, we'll not it's not Jesus's  .

As an aside, I'm not comfortable with excavating tombs or pyramids or the like.  They are of archeological, and other, interest of course but there is something distasteful about digging up bodies or remains of them unless there is a sound reason, forensics or something of that ilk.  When that is necessary, in this country, the police and forensic experts have to apply for special permission and it's done late or early, with no-one else around, out of respect.  Yet archeologists can dig anyone up willy nilly because the dead have no relatives still alive to consult!  Just my feelings.

This is not really a tomb because Jesus is said to have ascended to heaven in his body. So...there is no body or remains there.  It is just a rock on which the dead body of Jesus is believed to have been placed before his resurrection.

[Sriram]

As Hope says...someone just decided 300 years after the fact that that particular rock was the one on which Jesus was placed. There is no way of proving that either.

[Brownie]

Well the article calls it a tomb, for all we know it could be anyone's tomb, there may even be a family buried there.   

If nothing is found, I can envisage groups of people paying a lot of money to go there to worship.  A result for some.

[SweetPea]

I'm with Hope and Brownie on this, Sriram.... if any remains are found it cannot be Christ's tomb.

Brownie

I'm with you as well on your comment on digging up ancient burial grounds. I'm quite passionate about the opening of Tutankhamun's tomb and the constant observing of his mummy. Guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite as in 1973 I stood in a queue for four hours to view the Tut exhibition when it came to London. At the time, I was a youthful 20yr old crazy about all things Egyptian.... have since changed some of my views. Then there are the mummies that get tossed about in the Cairo museum. It's about respect for those that have passed and their ancestors. Prayers and rituals have been performed at the time of burial, we must, as I say, respect this and not be selfish in want of gratification.   

[Sebastian Toe]

If I remember correctly, it was Helena, the mother of the Emperor Constantine, who decided which tomb was THE tomb.  Not sure what archeaological qualifications she had to make this decision.

Maybe she was correct, maybe she was guided by the Holy Spirit.
Not sure that you can prove that she wasn't?

[Sriram]

I'm with Hope and Brownie on this, Sriram.... if any remains are found it cannot be Christ's tomb.

Brownie

I'm with you as well on your comment on digging up ancient burial grounds. I'm quite passionate about the opening of Tutankhamun's tomb and the constant observing of his mummy. Guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite as in 1973 I stood in a queue for four hours to view the Tut exhibition when it came to London. At the time, I was a youthful 20yr old crazy about all things Egyptian.... have since changed some of my views. Then there are the mummies that get tossed about in the Cairo museum. It's about respect for those that have passed and their ancestors. Prayers and rituals have been performed at the time of burial, we must, as I say, respect this and not be selfish in want of gratification.

Hi SweetPea,

Its not a newly discovered tomb that they are opening for the first time.  It has probably been opened many times before but the last time was in 1810 or so.  They are taking up some repairs or something.

[Walter]

Up I Scotland there is a Loch Ness Monster visitor centre, lots of people visit that too. I went there myself once and was separated from an amount of money 

[floo]

Well the article calls it a tomb, for all we know it could be anyone's tomb, there may even be a family buried there.   

If nothing is found, I can envisage groups of people paying a lot of money to go there to worship.  A result for some.

There is always someone ready to make a lot of money out of the gullibility of other people.

[Brownie]

Up I Scotland there is a Loch Ness Monster visitor centre, lots of people visit that too. I went there myself once and was separated from an amount of money 

 

SweetPea, you and I appear to agree on the issue of digging up the dead.

On this one, there is some headline-making fuss about a site that has been excavated in the past.   

[Hope]

If the tomb is that of Jesus and there is a body inside it, it is likely to be his. Not that there is any way of proving it as we don't have copies of his DNA!

The problem is, Floo, that the tomb he was buried in was not created for him - it was Joseph of Arimethea's tomb.  Since the real idea that distinguished Christians from Jews was the risen-ness of Christ, the tomb might well have been used for JofA or any of his family.

[floo]

Once a person is dead it doesn't matter what happens to the body, imo. Apparently in the UK graves can be dug up after 70 years now, I believe.

[Hope]

Maybe she was correct, maybe she was guided by the Holy Spirit.
Not sure that you can prove that she wasn't?

I wasn't actually saying one thing or the other - just that it she who decided because it appears that the early church wasn't that bothered with finding the tomb.  It was more interested in the fact of resurrection and therefore a living Saviour.

Quite what Helena's position in regard to Jesus was I don't think anyone knows - did she ever claim a conversion experience?

[Hope]

Up I Scotland there is a Loch Ness Monster visitor centre, lots of people visit that too. I went there myself once and was separated from an amount of money 

From what you said elsewhere, it seems that you can afford to be' separated from an amount of money'.  If its gone into the local economy up there, it sounds as if you have done a good deed.

[Hope]

Once a person is dead it doesn't matter what happens to the body, imo. Apparently in the UK graves can be dug up after 70 years now, I believe.

In Greece and some other countries, one rents a plot for x years.  After that time (or sooner, if you don't keep the rental payments up) the bones are dug up and placed in an ossuary - often the resting place of the bones of other family members.

[floo]

The problem is, Floo, that the tomb he was buried in was not created for him - it was Joseph of Arimethea's tomb.  Since the real idea that distinguished Christians from Jews was the risen-ness of Christ, the tomb might well have been used for JofA or any of his family.

As it isn't credible for anyone to resurrect if they are well and truly dead, I think one can take the resurrection of Jesus with a HUGE pinch of salt. I have asked this question so many times and never had a sensible answer, if he did resurrect why isn't he around today in person so we can all see him, not as a matter of faith?

[Walter]

From what you said elsewhere, it seems that you can afford to be' separated from an amount of money'.  If its gone into the local economy up there, it sounds as if you have done a good deed.

Yes, that's the way I looked at it too, thank you.

[Walter]

As it isn't credible for anyone to resurrect if they are well and truly dead, I think one can take the resurrection of Jesus with a HUGE pinch of salt. I have asked this question so many times and never had a sensible answer, if he did resurrect why isn't he around today in person so we can all see him, not as a matter of faith?

Well said,Floo

[Hope]

Well said,Floo

Sadly, for both Floo and yourself, Walter, there are a number of examples where people have been pronounced dead on the evidence of modern medical equipment, but returned to life same time later.  This alone suggests that the 'As it isn't credible ...' argument is open to debate.

[Brownie]

Oh Hope, we have discussed that at length before and the subject is horrific enough to give many people nightmares.

Our belief in the resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with people waking up on the mortuary slab - and I honestly wish I hadn't felt the need to say that, it's so frightening.

[Gordon]

Sadly, for both Floo and yourself, Walter, there are a number of examples where people have been pronounced dead on the evidence of modern medical equipment, but returned to life same time later.  This alone suggests that the 'As it isn't credible ...' argument is open to debate.

Rather simplistic there, Hope: don't confuse circumstances during which resuscitation is possible even in the absence of normal functioning (e.g. after cardiac arrest) for a limited interval with the certification of clinical death, where at that point those certified as clinically dead really do stay dead.

If you have documented examples of recovery after the certification of clinical death then the details would be of interest. 

[floo]

Sadly, for both Floo and yourself, Walter, there are a number of examples where people have been pronounced dead on the evidence of modern medical equipment, but returned to life same time later.  This alone suggests that the 'As it isn't credible ...' argument is open to debate.

They obviously weren't really dead!