Tomb of Jesus being opened.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

I have asked this question so many times and never had a sensible answer, if he did resurrect why isn't he around today in person so we can all see him, not as a matter of faith?

I'll let someone you know answer this! 

They obviously weren't really dead!

What difference would Jesus being around today in person so we can all see him make?

[Sebastian Toe]

I wasn't actually saying one thing or the other - just that it she who decided because it appears that the early church wasn't that bothered with finding the tomb.  It was more interested in the fact of resurrection and therefore a living Saviour.

Quite what Helena's position in regard to Jesus was I don't think anyone knows - did she ever claim a conversion experience?

Did she ever not claim a conversion experience?

[floo]

I'll let someone you know answer this! 
What difference would Jesus being around today in person so we can all see him make?

Surely if he was some sort of god it would be obvious wouldn't it?

[Walter]

I think Hopes favourite word is 'debate'. As in 'I have something of value to say on the subject'

Ah well...

[Walter]

I'll let someone you know answer this! 
What difference would Jesus being around today in person so we can all see him make?

are you serious?

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

Surely if he was some sort of god it would be obvious wouldn't it?

But you have already indicated that you are not prepared to accept it, no matter how obvious it was. Your words again

They obviously weren't really dead!

So even if you could go back in time and see everything that happened from the moment Jesus died on the cross, to the moment He rose from the dead, your conclusion would be that He wasn't really dead.

[Walter]

But you have already indicated that you are not prepared to accept it, no matter how obvious it was. Your words again

So even if you could go back in time and see everything that happened from the moment Jesus died on the cross, to the moment He rose from the dead, your conclusion would be that He wasn't really dead.

if you went back in time you would find it never happened.!

[SusanDoris]

if you went back in time you would find it never happened.!

Just like that heaven which jesus is supposed to have ascended into.]

[Walt Zingmatilder]

if you went back in time you would find it never happened.!

Great Wassler....so you are a Jesus Myther............ that means a fun explanation from you and a fun denial that anybody is a Jesus Myther on this forum from the usual suspects.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

In Greece and some other countries, one rents a plot for x years.  After that time (or sooner, if you don't keep the rental payments up) the bones are dug up and placed in an ossuary - often the resting place of the bones of other family members.

This is because the soil is such that grave space is limited. There is an interesting if macabre tradition whereby a service is held at the graveside five years after burial, whilst the body is exhumed. If the body has completely decomposed, it is seen as a sign that the sins of the deceased have been forgiven, and the deceased has gone to heaven. It is a kind of reverse burial, signifying triumph over death. The bones are then placed in an ossuary since cremation is considered wrong.

[Anchorman]

You say, "...where Jesus is believed to have buried before his resurrection", Sririam.

What Hope said.
If the remains of a body is found, we'll not it's not Jesus's  .

As an aside, I'm not comfortable with excavating tombs or pyramids or the like.  They are of archeological, and other, interest of course but there is something distasteful about digging up bodies or remains of them unless there is a sound reason, forensics or something of that ilk.  When that is necessary, in this country, the police and forensic experts have to apply for special permission and it's done late or early, with no-one else around, out of respect.  Yet archeologists can dig anyone up willy nilly because the dead have no relatives still alive to consult!  Just my feelings.

Geek alert.
Hi, Sweetpea. Disturbing the dead was something of an industry in Egypt! Re-use of coffins, sarcophagus - even mummy wrappings (All three and more in the case of Tutankhamun) was par for the course.
Go to the Theban Royal Mummy Project site and have a look at the contents of KV 35 and DB/TT 320 - both of which contained the royal dead stacked up like Ikea furniture as their own equipment had been 'recycled' by the state.
If the Egyptian state, which so valued the afterlife, were sanguine on the entering of these tombs, we need not be.
End of Geek alert.



As an aside, I'd like this Israeli tomb entered by professional, objective archaeologists with no axe to grinde.
I say I'd like it - but I hold out little hope that it will be the case.

[Hope]

if you went back in time you would find it never happened.!

Oddly enough, there is probably more evidence for it happening than for it not happening, Walt.  Perhaps, rather than requiring the 'religious' amongst us to provide the evidence for their position, its time you presented the evidence for yours.   (I'll give you a quick hint, though: this challenge has been made before and never taken up).

[Nearly Sane]

Oddly enough, there is probably more evidence for it happening than for it not happening, Walt.  Perhaps, rather than requiring the 'religious' amongst us to provide the evidence for their position, its time you presented the evidence for yours.   (I'll give you a quick hint, though: this challenge has been made before and never taken up).

Reversing the burden of proof - house!

[Walter]

Oddly enough, there is probably more evidence for it happening than for it not happening, Walt.  Perhaps, rather than requiring the 'religious' amongst us to provide the evidence for their position, its time you presented the evidence for yours.   (I'll give you a quick hint, though: this challenge has been made before and never taken up).

you really simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND do you. And I'm not about to explain it again. You should take a serious look at your thinking skills and work out where you keep going wrong.
I would be embarrassed if I were you

[Hope]

you really simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND do you. And I'm not about to explain it again. You should take a serious look at your thinking skills and work out where you keep going wrong.
I would be embarrassed if I were you

Why should I be embarrassed when a number of people - several of them starting from the POV that you hold (and seeking to disprove the whole thing once and for all) have done exactly what you have suggested, Walter, and come to the conclusion that it is true.  Frank Morrison, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell and Andre Kole spring to mind.

I appreciate that such facts are uncomfortable for you, but their being uncomfortable for you doesn't mean that we should ditch them.

[Walter]

 I don't know these people , give me some time and ill get back to you.

[Gordon]

Oddly enough, there is probably more evidence for it happening than for it not happening, Walt.  Perhaps, rather than requiring the 'religious' amongst us to provide the evidence for their position, its time you presented the evidence for yours.   (I'll give you a quick hint, though: this challenge has been made before and never taken up).

If so, and since it's the claim of you Christians, how about you presenting the 'evidence' you refer to instead of making such a glaring attempt to switch the burden of proof.

[Gordon]

Why should I be embarrassed when a number of people - several of them starting from the POV that you hold (and seeking to disprove the whole thing once and for all) have done exactly what you have suggested, Walter, and come to the conclusion that it is true.  Frank Morrison, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell and Andre Kole spring to mind.

I appreciate that such facts are uncomfortable for you, but their being uncomfortable for you doesn't mean that we should ditch them.

Then set out these 'facts' so we can all consider them: after all just citing people without providing details is poor form, so how about you do the work and summarise their views for us.   

[Hope]

I don't know these people , give me some time and ill get back to you.

Frank Morrison: an English journalist and author who set out to disprove the myth of Christianity over 80 years ago. His book “Who moved the stone?” is a classic and has led many people to Christ.

Lee Strobel:Chicago Tribune journo who set out to disprove Christianity, but ended up becoming a Christian and creating the “Case for…” series.

Josh McDowell: set out to write a paper in college to expose Christianity as a myth, but ended up being so convinced that he became a Christian himself and wrote the book “Evidence that Demands a Verdict”.

Andre Kole: created tricks for the greatest magicians in the world including making the statue of liberty disappear for David Copperfield. He was commissioned to study the miracles of the bible to expose them as magic tricks and thus disprove its legitimacy. Through this investigation, Andre Kole became a Christian.

[Hope]

Then set out these 'facts' so we can all consider them: after all just citing people without providing details is poor form, so how about you do the work and summarise their views for us.

Well, I thought that citing people might be more effective than the various arguments that Jim, I and others have posited over the years.

[Nearly Sane]

Why should I be embarrassed when a number of people - several of them starting from the POV that you hold (and seeking to disprove the whole thing once and for all) have done exactly what you have suggested, Walter, and come to the conclusion that it is true.  Frank Morrison, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell and Andre Kole spring to mind.

I appreciate that such facts are uncomfortable for you, but their being uncomfortable for you doesn't mean that we should ditch them.

You haven't cited facts, you have listed some people. I could do that to but it's doesn't even stretch to argument by authority as you haven't established that.

[Walter]

Well, I thought that citing people might be more effective than the various arguments that Jim, I and others have posited over the years.

you should have found better examples, you just don't get it do you

[Nearly Sane]

Well, I thought that citing people might be more effective than the various arguments that Jim, I and others have posited over the years.

I will happily deal with the arguments, if you actually make then. Never seen you do it, just refer to arguments you have made. On you go, make them.

[Gordon]

Frank Morrison: an English journalist and author who set out to disprove the myth of Christianity over 80 years ago. His book “Who moved the stone?” is a classic and has led many people to Christ.

Lee Strobel:Chicago Tribune journo who set out to disprove Christianity, but ended up becoming a Christian and creating the “Case for…” series.

Josh McDowell: set out to write a paper in college to expose Christianity as a myth, but ended up being so convinced that he became a Christian himself and wrote the book “Evidence that Demands a Verdict”.

Andre Kole: created tricks for the greatest magicians in the world including making the statue of liberty disappear for David Copperfield. He was commissioned to study the miracles of the bible to expose them as magic tricks and thus disprove its legitimacy. Through this investigation, Andre Kole became a Christian.

On what basis should we take their views seriously in respect of how they justify their current position? That they are now Christians is lovely for them personally but we'd need to critique their reasoning: after all they could be right or they could be wrong, but just knowing they regard themselves as converts to Christianity isn't enough.

So perhaps you should summarise the key factors than convinced them and we can explore just how convincing these are. 

[Gordon]

Well, I thought that citing people might be more effective than the various arguments that Jim, I and others have posited over the years.

Then you'd be dead wrong - so go on, bite the bullet and set out these arguments.