FIFA & Poppies: to ban or not to ban?

[Anchorman]

Poppies are apparently banned over the next few home nations games. http://metro.co.uk/2016/11/01/fifa-bans-poppies-during-match-because-they-are-political-statements-6226627/?ito=facebook

[floo]

How CRAZY is that?

[Brownie]

I don't see poppies as "political statements" but neutral.  People died in combat (generally not of their own making), we remember them, that's all.

Used to be able to buy a white poppy which showed a commitment to peace.  I remember buying both but haven't seen any in recent years.

[floo]

I think white poppies are an insult to those who died!

[Owlswing]

I think white poppies are an insult to those who died!

On a par with the White Feather of WW1.

[Brownie]

Are they really?  I never thought of them like that, honestly.  The white feather business was dreadful, how could anyone make a judgement about someone not in uniform.

My view was that white poppies were making a statement about being committed to peace and many people who survived combat felt the same, some even going as far as becoming pacifists.  However my idea of wearing a white poppy was not about pacifism in every situation but because I believed if everyone committed to peace, more peaceful solutions would be found.

Oh well, white poppies are no longer around as far as I know so the situation doesn't arise but thanks for your opinions.  I wish SteveH would comment on this thread because he knows more about it than I.  Not a big deal though, I'm sure you know I didn't intend any offence to anyone - still not sure that white poppies are offensive but you said so and wouldn't have without good reason.

Found this wiki article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_poppy

It seems I wasn't being insulting by wearing a white poppy and there is nothing wrong with them!
I thought so but being as it was years ago and I am by nature a bit vague about some things, I presumed you had done some research.

Still hope SteveH comes on with his opinion though he may not care one way or 't'other.

I will buy two red poppies, as I do every year, one of which I will wear until it falls off and the other for the old man who always loses it in five minutes.  If I see a white poppy on sale I'll wear both. 

We used to have a British Legion club down the road to us which was quite a good social club by all accounts, my neighbours used to go but we never got around to it.  It is now an extremely nice and useful Co-op, which I do go to, including this morning (no leftover pumpkins for me to make soup today)!   Years ago I imagine they would have had information about the different poppies and the Wiki article says that the BL see no conflict between wearing both.

[floo]

November 11th isn't about pacifists, it is about those who died fighting for our country!

[Aruntraveller]

I think white poppies are an insult to those who died!

Why?

I would have thought that quite a few of those who died might have preferred more peace given the option. You do sound so reactionary sometimes. They might even think it a compliment that their deaths moved people towards thinking about peace as an option.

Have you still got a black and white TV in your house?

[floo]

Why?

I would have thought that quite a few of those who died might have preferred more peace given the option. You do sound so reactionary sometimes. They might even think it a compliment that their deaths moved people towards thinking about peace as an option.

Have you still got a black and white TV in your house?

It is about honouring people who died FIGHTING for their country. If pacifists want their own peace day with white poppies they should have one, but NOT on November 11th.

[Aruntraveller]

It is about honouring people who died FIGHTING for their country. If pacifists want their own peace day with white poppies they should have one, but NOT on November 11th.

As ever you are living up to your by-line.

[Brownie]

It's not worth getting het up about.

Not everyone understands the meaning of the white poppy, that's why I posted the wiki link and there are other references if one cares to google. 

No offence intended at all.

[Owlswing]

. . . because I believed if everyone committed to peace, more peaceful solutions would be found.

The problem with this is the "everyone". Also the definition of peace.

Putin is, supposedly, committed to peace, but, unfortunately, it is a peace on terms dictated by him. He is, of course, not the only one who thinks like this. On the matter of militant Islam and Daesh, Trump wants peace, but again a peace on terms dictated by him.

While such as these are the leaders of the world's major powers universal peace is but a pipedream.

[Brownie]

Maybe Owl, only time will tell.
Still no reason not to wear a white poppy.

[Anchorman]

White poppies were never intended as an insult, but a gesture. The foundation was Christian and pacifist - many of those who were pacifist were survivors of the trenches who had seen their comrades butchered, or widows of the fallen. I'll wear a red poppy - but I will not condemn anyone who wears a white one. http://www.thenews.coop/91531/news/history/white-poppies-tell-the-story-of-the-alternative-remembrance-day/

[Hope]

On a par with the White Feather of WW1.

Shows how little you and Floo understand the white poppy, Owl.  For one thing, someone buys a white poppy for themselves to wear, to show their commitment to peace and reconciliation.  It isn't something you buy to give to someone else (unless thay ask you to buy one for them).

[Hope]

November 11th isn't about pacifists, it is about those who died fighting for our country!

And, of course, over the years many pacifists have died - both amongst our and other nations' forces - fighting for their country.

[Harrowby Hall]

Shows how little you and Floo understand the white poppy, Owl.  For one thing, someone buys a white poppy for themselves to wear, to show their commitment to peace and reconciliation.  It isn't something you buy to give to someone else (unless thay ask you to buy one for them).

Does one "buy" a poppy?

I'm not trying to score points, Hope, but just wondering how people perceive the act of obtaining a poppy (red or white).

[Brownie]

That's nit picking.  We may not 'buy' a poppy as such.  There is no fixed amount but I've never known anyone to take a poppy and not put any money in a collection box.

Anchor and Hope (sounds like a pub!), good posts about the white poppy.

[Owlswing]

Shows how little you and Floo understand the white poppy, Owl.  For one thing, someone buys a white poppy for themselves to wear, to show their commitment to peace and reconciliation.  It isn't something you buy to give to someone else (unless thay ask you to buy one for them).

It says "If you and yours hadn't fought, ours would not have had to die!"

Had these people not fought this forum would be in German!

And like many of my family i would be dead because of my familiy's religion!

[Anchorman]

Owl: With respect, one of the greatest men I ever met - an agnostic some of the time, atheiist the rest - wore a white poppy. He had fought in North Africa, Sicicily and Italy in the second war, as a soldier of the (reconstituted) 51st Highland division. What he saw sickened him and made him a committed lifelong pacifist. He's better known nowadays as a great poet songwriter and collector of folk ballads - the late Hamish Henderson, and I honour his fight and admire his courage in rejecting war. The white poppy was not a sign of defeat or of disdain for the military, but a pledge to work for peace.

[T8-eh-T8]

Hmmm this doesn't pass the smell test for me. Looks too much like click bait.

For example how can FIFA possibly police this? It's an England Scotland match. Nobody is going to raise a complaint.

I notice that FIFA haven't commented on the article, which was mined from The Sun and comes from The Metro. I lay myself open for you all to sneer at my cynicism as I suggest that they may not be telling the truth, but are looking for the public to distribute their outrageous story to increase the number of clicks on their site, thus increasing their advertising revenue and profile.

Just saying. 

[Anchorman]

T8...... Here's the Beeb's latest article on the subject: http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37832115

[Hope]

Hmmm this doesn't pass the smell test for me. Looks too much like click bait.

Whilst this might be true, T8, it wasn't click bait when the same issue was raised by FIFA 5 years ago and Prince William and David Cameron urged FIFA to rethink.  On that occasion, England were playing Spain on Saturday 12th November 2011.  In the end, FIFA allowed poppies to be worn on armbands, rather than on the shirts.

[Hope]

Does one "buy" a poppy?

I'm not trying to score points, Hope, but just wondering how people perceive the act of obtaining a poppy (red or white).

Effectively, yes.  As far as I am aware, money changes hands in the process of obtaining a poppy.  The people distributing them are known as poppy sellers.  Whilst there is no set charge for the poppy - you donate what you feel you want to - they are still being sold.

I suspect that many people, especially the older ones around, regard the buying of a poppy - of whatever colour - as a means of solidarity with the families of those who died in battle and in thanks for their sacrifice.

[T8-eh-T8]

It's like seem this story has an element of credence, and so I apologise.

I can only blame my lack of judgement on the confusion caused by deciding who I trust the least; FIFA or the media