Louis Smith

[Nearly Sane]

Bit of an arse but don't see the need for a ban


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/37832754

[Anchorman]

Bit of an arse but don't see the need for a ban


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/37832754

Just imagine what Dave Allen got away with over all those years.
There's equality for you.


(Mind you, Dave Allen was brilliant, and the numpties at the BBBC who scrubbed much of his work in the '70's 'clear out' were nothing short of criminal, imo)

[Brownie]

I quite like Louis Smith and am sorry about the ban.  He only laughed after all.  Sigh.

Agree about Dave Allen, he was class act.

[SweetPea]

I really cannot understand this ban either. There was something on the tv a few weeks ago showing Louis visiting a mosque and being genuinely sorry for his laughter in the mocking video. He was shown around the mosque by an imam and even joined some members in a meal. I'll see if I can find something on this visit.

Ah.... here we are, I remember now, the visit to the mosque was aired on the Victoria Derbyshire show. This video is well worth a view, and I feel Louis has paid his 'penance' just from what he says in this clip (about 8mins in length). He also missed the Olympic parade in London to attend the mosque.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nV63LHn1OQ

Why are we so afraid to upset those of the Islamic faith? Would the banning have happened if a video had emerged of Louis mocking a Christian praying? Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down Islam, I'm just trying to understand the whole picture.     

[BeRational]

I heard a muslim on the radio saying it caused offence.

So what, he does not have a right to be not offended.

If causing offence is the measure, then I am offended that he is offended.

What now?

[Nearly Sane]

This hits most of what I think


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/02/louis-smith-ban-british-gymnastics?CMP=fb_gu

[Hope]

To what extent are such bans designed to be lessons for others?

[Brownie]

Thanks for that link NS.
"Smith and his fellow gymnast Luke Carson were filmed at a wedding shouting Allahu Akbar and mimicking a prayer pose"

What a stupid, childish thing for grown men to do.   He has gone down in my estimation, he's not fourteen for goodness sake.

Yes he was offensive.  I would have been offended, and embarrassed, had I witnessed that behaviour.

We non-Muslims ought to be a bit more protective of our faith.  We don't have to go around banning people but we could insist, politely, that a bit of respect costs nothing.

[BeRational]

Thanks for that link NS.
"Smith and his fellow gymnast Luke Carson were filmed at a wedding shouting Allahu Akbar and mimicking a prayer pose"

What a stupid, childish thing for grown men to do.   He has gone down in my estimation, he's not fourteen for goodness sake.

Yes he was offensive.  I would have been offended, and embarrassed, had I witnessed that behaviour.

We non-Muslims ought to be a bit more protective of our faith.  We don't have to go around banning people but we could insist, politely, that a bit of respect costs nothing.

You do not have a right to not be offended.

Anyone can be offended by anything.

I am offended by your post, so should you be banned from posting?

[Nearly Sane]

Thanks for that link NS.
"Smith and his fellow gymnast Luke Carson were filmed at a wedding shouting Allahu Akbar and mimicking a prayer pose"

What a stupid, childish thing for grown men to do.   He has gone down in my estimation, he's not fourteen for goodness sake.

Yes he was offensive.  I would have been offended, and embarrassed, had I witnessed that behaviour.

We non-Muslims ought to be a bit more protective of our faith.  We don't have to go around banning people but we could insist, politely, that a bit of respect costs nothing.

Why does a belief deserve respect?

[Brownie]

I think you know what I meant;  respect of the right of someone to have a belief.

It's bad manners to mock anyone.  Unnecessary.  What on earth did they get out of it?  It's the sort of thing you might expect from a kid.

[Nearly Sane]

I think you know what I meant;  respect of the right of someone to have a belief.

It's bad manners to mock anyone.  Unnecessary.  What on earth did they get out of it?  It's the sort of thing you might expect from a kid.

So no Life of Brian then.

[wigginhall]

There is the point the ban is cumulative, as Smith has been in trouble before.   One incident was posting a picture of a 16 year old girl on social media.   

Interesting that the other guy was let off, maybe because of no prior trouble.    One odd thing is that this was a private function, where they did their mock prayer.   How can you be punished for private stuff?   I say outrageous stuff to my wife about everything.

[Sebastian Toe]

   I say outrageous stuff to my wife about everything.

Yes, she mentioned that to me.

BTW, nice wallpaper in your bedroom, where did you get it?

 

[Sassy]

This Country is a laughing stock. They can burn our flag, mock our religion and murder our people and
 no one does a thing about it.
But please do not mock their precious religious beliefs after all our flag burned, our religion mocked and our people murdered because of that religion...

GO FIGURE...

[Brownie]

So no Life of Brian then.

In your home, in social and work situations,, scoffing, mocking, scathing remarks and gestures about the beliefs of others are unnecessary.

I've seen and heard it happen many times, childish, boorish, ignorant behaviour which can be hurtful and intimidating to others.  Not just about religion!  What's the point?

This is something I feel strongly about, we'll have to agree to differ.

I'm sure Louis Smith (& his friend) did what he did unthinkingly, in the moment, but he needs to grow up. 

[Nearly Sane]

In your home, in social and work situations,, scoffing, mocking, scathing remarks and gestures about the beliefs of others are unnecessary.

I've seen and heard it happen many times, childish, boorish, ignorant behaviour which can be hurtful and intimidating to others.  Not just about religion!  What's the point?

This is something I feel strongly about, we'll have to agree to differ.

I'm sure Louis Smith (& his friend) did what he did unthinkingly, in the moment, but he needs to grow up.

So it's OK to make a film released across the country mocking a religion, but if I say in the privacy of my own home, homeopathy is a pile of shite, I need to grow up?

[Sebastian Toe]

This Country is a laughing stock.

...... murder our people

definitely illegal

 no one does a thing about it.

Show where that is true with regard to murder.......

[Anchorman]

C'mon, Seb....Sass isn't talking about Scotland. I'm sure she'll provide evidence for her country, though. As for mocking religion? Not a problem. Those who are offended have a weaker faith than the rest of us.

[Gordon]

I think any movement that operates in the public domain and seeks to influence wider society, where religion and politics are the two obvious examples, are fair game and that provided this stops short of personal intrusion, such as would lead to charges of slander or libel, then people are free to mock just as others are free to ignore those doing the mocking.

That some may feel personally offended isn't of great relevance to society at large and I don't buy the 'insult my religion and you insult me' mentality, since if we seek to prevent someone feeling offended if anyone mocks their religion then we'd be constraining freedom of expression for society at large: replace 'religion' with 'politics' and there would be a furore. I get that some are sensitive about their religion but their sensitivity doesn't function as an imperative that constrains those who don't share these sensitivities.

In my experience though there are many people of faith who aren't unduly bothered by what others say and also many non-religious people who understand that there are sensitivities involved and take these into account: the extremes in either case, be it hyper-sensitivity to perceived mockery or crass insensitivity with regard to religion, is but one aspect of the landscape and not all of it. 

It seems to me that this punishment is effectively a sanction applied on the basis of this chap being found guilty of blasphemy, which is ludicrous in the UK in the 21st century.

[Enki]

I think any movement that operates in the public domain and seeks to influence wider society, where religion and politics are the two obvious examples, are fair game and that provided this stops short of personal intrusion, such as would lead to charges of slander or libel, then people are free to mock just as others are free to ignore those doing the mocking.

That some may feel personally offended isn't of great relevance to society at large and I don't buy the 'insult my religion and you insult me' mentality, since if we seek to prevent someone feeling offended if anyone mocks their religion then we'd be constraining freedom of expression for society at large: replace 'religion' with 'politics' and there would be a furore. I get that some are sensitive about their religion but their sensitivity doesn't function as an imperative that constrains those who don't share these sensitivities.

In my experience though there are many people of faith who aren't unduly bothered by what others say and also many non-religious people who understand that there are sensitivities involved and take these into account: the extremes in either case, be it hyper-sensitivity to perceived mockery or crass insensitivity with regard to religion, is but one aspect of the landscape and not all of it. 

It seems to me that this punishment is effectively a sanction applied on the basis of this chap being found guilty of blasphemy, which is ludicrous in the UK in the 21st century.

I agree completely. Nothing more to add.

[Brownie]

So it's OK to make a film released across the country mocking a religion, but if I say in the privacy of my own home, homeopathy is a pile of shite, I need to grow up?

Gordon Bennett, I feel you are misunderstanding me - or maybe I haven't made myself clear.

I don't make films mocking religion (or films not mocking religion!).  If you mean "The Life of Brian", I went to see it with a group of friends when it first came out and found it quite funny, didn't see it as mocking Christianity and sneered a bit at all the controversy. 

Having watched the film much later, on TV, I thought if anything it was a bit anti-semitic and couldn't find anything particularly funny about the famous song, "Always look on the bright side...", in the context of being sung whilst being put to death! Other than that it is quite a jolly song. I don't remember all the details of the film now.   Oh, "Blessed are the cheesemakers", of course.  But that's just me, everyone views things differently.

Art always pushes the boundaries, I accept that.

(My cousin's husband had that song played at his funeral, btw.)

In my home I would gently discourage racist talk, or religious intolerance but if someone expressed those views I'd be prepared to listen and talk about it.  I'm not totally without any prejudices but I don't go to people's houses and air them, that would be extremely bad manners.  In my opinion.

Having a discussion about racism or religion is a different matter.

I've not always been so sensitive towards the feelings of others, when I was younger I said stupid, tactless things and showed my ignorance on occasions, the memory makes me cringe now.

I'm also not without personal experience but if I start telling stories of such things it will make the discussion personal to me which would be self-indulgent and boring for everyone else, apart from the fact that I am quite a private person - so I won't.

Hope you understand now even if you don't agree.

The forum would be extremely dull if everyone agreed!

[wigginhall]

I think mockery is essential to a lively democracy.   The minute that you try to control it, you are in big trouble.   As to religious sensibilities, I find this confusing.  If Smith had dressed like a rabbi and mock-intoned Jewish prayers, what would happen?  Dunno.  But I suspect the association see him as trouble, from previous 'offences'. 

[Jack Knave]

I found it funny!

[Sassy]

C'mon, Seb....Sass isn't talking about Scotland. I'm sure she'll provide evidence for her country, though. As for mocking religion? Not a problem. Those who are offended have a weaker faith than the rest of us.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2847071/Teenage-son-former-rock-musician-jihadi-bride-arrested-Union-Jack-torn-burnt-spat-Kent-village.html

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A9mSs2qfwhtY51AAqxJLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZmVxM3N0BGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Soldier+Beheaded+By+Islamic+Terrorist+In+Britain&fr=yfp-t-UK038#id=1&vid=d3c5b7d3f363cb7aef00d9f2395cbc08&action=view


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14063927

http://www.christian.org.uk/news/well-mock-jesus-but-not-mohammed-says-bbc-boss/


The truth is those who speak out have more faith than those who just cringe in corners behind excuses.