Author Topic: Police brutality or Police stupidity  (Read 4370 times)

Owlswing

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Police brutality or Police stupidity
« on: November 02, 2016, 10:10:14 PM »
My aversion to Americans, particularly their cops, is well known.

This story jolts it up about 50 notches!

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/12/native-american-police-over-reacting/
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 12:27:38 AM by Owlswing »
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Brownie

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2016, 12:07:37 AM »
The site you linked to is still loading, I could only read the first bit so I googled and found this from CNN (probably says the same):

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/09/us/south-dakota-taser-lawsuit/

It's grim.  One would have thought experienced police officers could find a more humane way of restraining the child.

I'd be interested to know how the girl is nearly two years after the event.  Poor kid was obviously disturbed if she was brandishing a knife.
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Owlswing

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2016, 12:35:12 AM »

A fuller version - nowhere does it say that she was 'brandishing' the knife - a small paring knife, she had it but had cut no-one not even herself. She WAS having a tantrum.

Tasers have killed adults - these guys are lucky it didn't kill the child.

If it had been a white child they would not have tasered her, but if they had all Hell woulf have let loose, but she is Native American so no-one gives a shit!

Courts, Cover-Up, Crime, Indigenous Peoples, Police
Police Say Tasering 8-Year-Old Native American Girl Was Justified
December 9, 2014 9:43 pm by M. David (Editor In Chief)

8-year-old_rosebud_sioux_girl_tazed_by_police-courtesy_family1

The mother of an 8-year-old Native American girl is suing police who maintain that they were justified in using a taser on the child. The family lives in Pierre, South Dakota and belong to the Rosebud Sioux community.

Four police officers decided that this young girl who had a small paring knife was “a danger to herself,” requiring them to taser her.

But her mother says that the officers should have used non-violent means to neutralize the threat they believed the 70-pound girl posed.

It all happened back in October of 2013, but since then family members have obtained attorneys Dana Hanna and Patrick Duffy and their tribe has released public statements against the incident of irrational police brutality.

“Within seconds,” the officer’s electroshock weapon discharged snares into the chest of the 70-pound girl, the lawsuit reads.

“The force of the electricity shot through her body, lifted her, and threw her against a wall. After the officers had stunned (the girl) into high voltage submission, they pulled the fish-hook like Taser darts from her chest, gave her emergency medical attention, bandaged the holes left by the razor-sharp hooks, and called the ambulance.”

Pierre Police Chief Bob Granpre, however, says that the police acted properly, and a two-month long investigate claims the same thing (PDF).

Attorney Dana Hanna recounts the incident, saying that the “four trained police officers surrounding a 70-pound, 8-year-old Indian girl,” should have used tactics that were less violent and not so risky to the young girl’s health and possibly life.

“One distracts her, another grabs the girl’s arm. That’s what they should have done,” Hanna continued.

“She had a kitchen paring knife, but hadn’t cut. She was a kid throwing a tantrum. They should have made an attempt to grab the kid, not use a weapon to throw her into a wall. A Taser’s not meant to kill, but it does kill. Many people have died after being hit by a Taser by cops. It never should be used on a little child. She certainly wasn’t presenting a danger to officers.”

The girl’s father, Bobby Jones added, “I don’t fault for the police being there because they were called. They were there. But what happened while they were there is why I’m upset,” in an early interview he did with local KSFY.

Hanna says that the girl, “L.M.J.”, is currently receiving mental and emotional counseling from a child counselor, as a result of the trauma she experienced at the hands of police. We’ll keep you updated on how the lawsuit proceeds.
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Brownie

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2016, 12:56:16 AM »
Poor kid.
I can't understand how they could do that to a child.  Just didn't care I suppose, she wasn't 'important' enough.
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Hope

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2016, 08:00:05 AM »
If it had been a white child they would not have tasered her, but if they had all Hell woulf have let loose, but she is Native American so no-one gives a shit!
I think that you need to be careful when you make this kind of comment, Owl, since even notoriously racist American police can and do treat white kids/people in the same way - as a story from my American brother-in-law who lives in California highlighted to me a while back.  The problem is that these events don't make the news at all.
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Hope

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2016, 08:03:46 AM »
Poor kid.
I can't understand how they could do that to a child.  Just didn't care I suppose, she wasn't 'important' enough.
I haven't been able to pull up the original, OP, story - seems to hang halfway thro' the procedure - but we don't know whether the girl had any priors or other type of history.  That is often the problem with these stories - we simply get the headlines, not the back story.  When we do get the latter, sometimes the story becomes worse that the headlines suggested; sometimes less so.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2016, 08:06:17 AM »
I haven't been able to pull up the original, OP, story - seems to hang halfway thro' the procedure - but we don't know whether the girl had any priors or other type of history.  That is often the problem with these stories - we simply get the headlines, not the back story.  When we do get the latter, sometimes the story becomes worse that the headlines suggested; sometimes less so.

What 'priors' might an 8 year old have to necessitate tasering?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2016, 08:07:49 AM »
I think that you need to be careful when you make this kind of comment, Owl, since even notoriously racist American police can and do treat white kids/people in the same way - as a story from my American brother-in-law who lives in California highlighted to me a while back.  The problem is that these events don't make the news at all.
In what ways was the story similar?

Hope

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2016, 08:17:41 AM »
In what ways was the story similar?
Again, I haven't been able to read the OP link, so I'm going by the other references - but the story my b-in-l told us was of 2 children - both under 10 - who were in the middle of a major ding-dong (within a car of all places) to the extent that the parent who was driving was unable to keep control of the car.  A police officer flagged the car down and when it stopped only to start up again, he used a taser through the back window which was open at the time.  This was a white family in an apparently 'good' part of San Francisco.  I'm afraid he didn't send us a URL, but he did send us a clipping.  It only made a 3 or 4 line story on some insignificant page in the local paper.
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floo

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2016, 08:24:51 AM »
American Police seem to use their weapons first and ask questions later, but what does one expect in a country where the gun culture reigns supreme! >:(

Owlswing

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2016, 09:17:47 AM »
I haven't been able to pull up the original, OP, story - seems to hang halfway thro' the procedure - but we don't know whether the girl had any priors or other type of history.  That is often the problem with these stories - we simply get the headlines, not the back story.  When we do get the latter, sometimes the story becomes worse that the headlines suggested; sometimes less so.

Any priors! ANY PRIORS!

She was only 8! What priors can she have!
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2016, 09:26:27 AM »
Any priors! ANY PRIORS!

She was only 8! What priors can she have!
Original Sin?  ;)

Hope

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2016, 09:57:11 AM »
Any priors! ANY PRIORS!

She was only 8! What priors can she have!
I used to teach an 11-year old boy who had been given his first ASBO at the age of 5 and had been caught stealing at the age of 7.  It wasn't a sweet or two now and again from the local corner store - it was a major raid on a jewellery store, and even he admitted later that he had helped mastermind it.  By the time I got to know him, he had been running a gang which included his father, 2 cousins and an uncle for 2 years.  He was an extremely bright kid, but he put all his efforts into planning thefts and none into academic work.
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Brownie

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2016, 09:59:45 AM »
That's true.

It's a horrible story.  Granted we don't get the full story but tasering a child is OTT.  We aren't living in times when children didn't count for anything, those days should be well behind us.

My first reaction, like Owl's, was that a Native American child would be worth less than a white one in the eyes of some police, just as there is widespread racism in our police force, but they aren't all like that. What Hope says about his family's experience is harrowing but shows that stuff happens to everyone.

I hope the little girl is alright now.
----------------

Just seen what Hope wrote about "prior" and I'm sure he didn't mean original sin.  She may have been one of those children who was known for being out of control, they do exist unfortunately.
Now seen Hope's latest post which illustrates the problems some families have.   
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Owlswing

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2016, 10:08:16 AM »
I used to teach an 11-year old boy who had been given his first ASBO at the age of 5 and had been caught stealing at the age of 7.  It wasn't a sweet or two now and again from the local corner store - it was a major raid on a jewellery store, and even he admitted later that he had helped mastermind it.  By the time I got to know him, he had been running a gang which included his father, 2 cousins and an uncle for 2 years.  He was an extremely bright kid, but he put all his efforts into planning thefts and none into academic work.

Hope you are unbelievable.

When is a post that you disagree with NOT going to be met by something you have done, someone you know has done or said?

You have done this so many times I see it as Hope' "Cry Wolf" syndrome and I no longer believe a word of it! 
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BeRational

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2016, 11:54:29 AM »
Hope you are unbelievable.

When is a post that you disagree with NOT going to be met by something you have done, someone you know has done or said?

You have done this so many times I see it as Hope' "Cry Wolf" syndrome and I no longer believe a word of it!

As Ricky Gervaise said about the moral of the story about the boy that cried wolf is:-

Don't tell the same lie twice!
I see gullible people, everywhere!

floo

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2016, 12:47:28 PM »
I used to teach an 11-year old boy who had been given his first ASBO at the age of 5 and had been caught stealing at the age of 7.  It wasn't a sweet or two now and again from the local corner store - it was a major raid on a jewellery store, and even he admitted later that he had helped mastermind it.  By the time I got to know him, he had been running a gang which included his father, 2 cousins and an uncle for 2 years.  He was an extremely bright kid, but he put all his efforts into planning thefts and none into academic work.

An ASBO at 5? I find that very hard to believe!

Owlswing

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2016, 03:20:59 PM »

I used to teach an 11-year old boy who had been given his first ASBO at the age of 5 and had been caught stealing at the age of 7.  It wasn't a sweet or two now and again from the local corner store - it was a major raid on a jewellery store, and even he admitted later that he had helped mastermind it.  By the time I got to know him, he had been running a gang which included his father, 2 cousins and an uncle for 2 years.  He was an extremely bright kid, but he put all his efforts into planning thefts and none into academic work.

Bullsh

Published in Pink News 25.12.2015!

A man who at age 12 became the youngest person to get an Asbo has said he terrorised his community as he hid his sexuality.

Danny Oakley and his brother Ricky were given Asbos (anti-social behaviour order) when the former was 12 years old.

They had caused mayhem in their home town of Wolverhampton, and were dubbed “demon children”, and “Asbros”.

At the time they were accused of property destruction, starting fires and racial abuse.

But now aged 21, Oakley tells the Sun that he was tormented by trying to hide the fact that he is gay.

He said: “I knew I was gay but didn’t want to be. I was a criminal and didn’t want to be.

“Dad would have hated me if he knew, so at 14 I tried to kill myself because the secret was torture.

“When you’re a thug on a council estate, being gay isn’t an option. I was living a lie.”

After his mum left their family when he was seven, Oakley says his dad disowned him when he found out he is gay at age 16.

After serving a jail sentence in April 2014 for not turning up to a probation session, Oakley now hopes to have turned over a new leaf, and has finished a business studies course at a college.

He continued: “I wish I could go back to our neighbours — everyone who was scared of us, everyone we hurt or whose property we damaged — and tell them I’m so sorry.

“I don’t drink, either. The new me is sober, clean and on the right side of the law.”


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Owlswing

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2016, 03:24:21 PM »


As Ricky Gervaise said about the moral of the story about the boy that cried wolf is:-

Don't tell the same lie twice!


Or, in this particular case, any variation of the same lie
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Sebastian Toe

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2016, 03:29:32 PM »
I used to teach an 11-year old boy who had been given his first ASBO at the age of 5 and had been caught stealing at the age of 7.  It wasn't a sweet or two now and again from the local corner store - it was a major raid on a jewellery store, and even he admitted later that he had helped mastermind it.  By the time I got to know him, he had been running a gang which included his father, 2 cousins and an uncle for 2 years.  He was an extremely bright kid, but he put all his efforts into planning thefts and none into academic work.

Sorry Hope but your story doesn't quite ring true with the Government publications for ASBOs;

Anyone over the age of 10 can be given an ASBO if they behave antisocially.
https://www.gov.uk/asbo

....or the police
West Midlands Police said ASBOs could only be issued to children over the age of 10.
http://swns.com/news/girl-3-threatened-asbo-playing-home-38549/

...or the BBC!

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4760000/newsid_4768200/4768272.stm?markResults=true&a_01=3&a_02=1&a_03=2&a_04=1&a_05=1&x=79&y=2



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Brownie

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2016, 04:38:49 PM »
Or, in this particular case, any variation of the same lie

Do you honestly think Hope has lied about this or is he just relaying what he was told?  I believe the latter is more likely, he was possibly told (maybe by parents), a muddled account of the child's history which included an ASBO, anti-social behaviour from the age of five and stealing from seven.  Not necessarily in that order.

(Until now I didn't know ASBOs were given to children aged ten and over.  Personally I think ten is too young but quite frankly I wouldn't know how to help, for example, a violent child, though I would certainly want to if I was in that situation.)
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Owlswing

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2016, 05:45:45 PM »
Do you honestly think Hope has lied about this or is he just relaying what he was told?  I believe the latter is more likely, he was possibly told (maybe by parents), a muddled account of the child's history which included an ASBO, anti-social behaviour from the age of five and stealing from seven.  Not necessarily in that order.

(Until now I didn't know ASBOs were given to children aged ten and over.  Personally I think ten is too young but quite frankly I wouldn't know how to help, for example, a violent child, though I would certainly want to if I was in that situation.)

Ten is, in the UK, the age of criminal responsibiity. From that age it is assumed that the child's parents will have, at least, tried to teach it wrong from right and the child understand the difference.

As to Hope.

I am sorry Brownie, but Hope has a long standing habit of quoting cases/friends/information/sources to back up his statements that have been shown, on closer examination, to be anywhere from inaccurate to out and out fabrication.

I admire your loyalty but in this case my experience of the man says that it is sadly misplaced.
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Sebastian Toe

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2016, 08:00:00 PM »
Ten is, in the UK, the age of criminal responsibiity.
For England and Wales maybe. It's 8 in Scotland.
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Hope

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2016, 08:02:45 PM »
Do you honestly think Hope has lied about this or is he just relaying what he was told?  I believe the latter is more likely, he was possibly told (maybe by parents), a muddled account of the child's history which included an ASBO, anti-social behaviour from the age of five and stealing from seven.  Not necessarily in that order.
Hi Brownie, and others.  The 'story' came from the police, and I saw the paperwork laid out on the table in front of myself, the SENCO and the other 4 SEN teachers thatn the school employed.  Not sure that I ever met the parents, possibly met the grandparents.

I will accept correction on one issue.  This happened in 1990 (or 1991). ASBOs weren't introduced until '98, so the 'order' that was put on the lad must have been whatever came before them - over the years there have been a variety of measures against anti-social behaviour.
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Brownie

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Re: Police brutality or Police stupidity
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2016, 09:12:17 PM »
That sounds about right, Hope.

Owlswing, it isn't a question of loyalty, Hope and I don't know eachother any more than you or I but I didn't think he was lying is all.  If you had been accused of lying I would have reacted the same.  I'd have thought you just got hold of some incorrect information - which most people do from time to time. 

Lying is a deliberate act of dishonesty, not a mistake.

As for always knowing someone or something, I've come across that a lot on forums from many posters.  People draw on their own experiences or that of people they know.  I've done it myself,  certainly won't again! 

Whilst I realise it can be a bit much if things are always personalised, sometimes in a discussion it's helpful to tell a more personal story, as long as it keeps to the point.

Never mind though, we move on.

Now it has been mentioned I do know that the criminal age of responsibility here is ten years.  We've had ten year old murderers before now who have had their names plastered all over the media.  How that has helped anyone is quite beyond me, it is surely sufficient to know that children were responsible, we don't need their names.  There are enough hate figures whose names and faces are seared into our memories without adding kids to their ranks.

I would really like to know how the little girl who was tasered is getting on now.
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