Police brutality or Police stupidity

[Nearly Sane]

That sounds about right, Hope.

Owlswing, it isn't a question of loyalty, Hope and I don't know eachother any more than you or I but I didn't think he was lying is all.  If you had been accused of lying I would have reacted the same.  I'd have thought you just got hold of some incorrect information - which most people do from time to time. 

Lying is a deliberate act of dishonesty, not a mistake.

As for always knowing someone or something, I've come across that a lot on forums from many posters.  People draw on their own experiences or that of people they know.  I've done it myself,  certainly won't again! 

Whilst I realise it can be a bit much if things are always personalised, sometimes in a discussion it's helpful to tell a more personal story, as long as it keeps to the point.

Never mind though, we move on.

Now it has been mentioned I do know that the criminal age of responsibility here is ten years.  We've had ten year old murderers before now who have had their names plastered all over the media.  How that has helped anyone is quite beyond me, it is surely sufficient to know that children were responsible, we don't need their names.  There are enough hate figures whose names and faces are seared into our memories without adding kids to their ranks.

I would really like to know how the little girl who was tasered is getting on now.

That's all lovely so what about Hope's idea that an eight year  old's 'priors' might justify tasering?

[Brownie]

Well I don't think there is justification for tasering a child and would have thought the police would be trained how to restrain children in such situations but I can't speak for Hope who was probably just trying to see it from all angles.  I don't know, ask him.

[Owlswing]

Well I don't think there is justification for tasering a child and would have thought the police would be trained how to restrain children in such situations but I can't speak for Hope who was probably just trying to see it from all angles.  I don't know, ask him.

We have, many times, but each time he gets caught out he vanishes for a while.

[Brownie]

Ah well, that's life.   We will carry on regardless.

[jeremyp]

I used to teach an 11-year old boy who had been given his first ASBO at the age of 5 and had been caught stealing at the age of 7.  It wasn't a sweet or two now and again from the local corner store - it was a major raid on a jewellery store, and even he admitted later that he had helped mastermind it.  By the time I got to know him, he had been running a gang which included his father, 2 cousins and an uncle for 2 years.  He was an extremely bright kid, but he put all his efforts into planning thefts and none into academic work.

Why would all that justify tasering him?

[floo]

A little off topic, but a police matter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-37861254

[Brownie]

Yes it is off topic but I read it anyway and it is horrific.  It also doesn't surprise me in the least.  Kids in homes were fair game and who was going to believe a youngster against someone of standing?   Very depressing, floo.
As an aside, I wondered what those dark purplish marks were on the side of his neck.

[Hope]

That's all lovely so what about Hope's idea that an eight year  old's 'priors' might justify tasering?

If that prior behaviour involved violence and injury to others - as does happen, sadly - tasering might be the only way to control the situation.  Bear in mind, as well, that the original story comes from the land that worships guns, I'm sure folk can think back to news reports of young children discharging parental guns when they have been left unattended and unsecured.

[Hope]

As an aside, I wondered what those dark purplish marks were on the side of his neck.

I seem to remember a reporter suggesting that they were a birthmark, but I may be wrong.

[Owlswing]

If that prior behaviour involved violence and injury to others - as does happen, sadly - tasering might be the only way to control the situation.  Bear in mind, as well, that the original story comes from the land that worships guns, I'm sure folk can think back to news reports of young children discharging parental guns when they have been left unattended and unsecured.

Hope, you are absolutely unbelieveable!

A 70lb 8 year old with a paring knife (normally about 4 inches long including handle)! Just what danger would you evisage this scenario would present to fully grown adult policemen in full rig-out?

I can envisage no circumstances that justify their actions.

Unless, of course, the child was a martial arts prodigy!   

[Sebastian Toe]

If that prior behaviour involved violence and injury to others - as does happen, sadly - tasering might be the only way to control the situation.  Bear in mind, as well, that the original story comes from the land that worships guns, I'm sure folk can think back to news reports of young children discharging parental guns when they have been left unattended and unsecured.

FFS
In America if a kid had a gun it wouldn't be tazered it would be shot!

[Owlswing]

FFS

In America if a kid had a gun it wouldn't be tazered it would be shot!

Too damned right - and Hope would still consider it "appropriate".

[Hope]

Too damned right - and Hope would still consider it "appropriate".

WEll, you're entitled to your opinion, Owl - your outburst clearly belies your real thinking.  As I have pointed out on a number of threads regarding guns and the US, I am against their use both by and against anyone, regardless of age, be that police or public.  All I noted was that police (and others) will often respond to anti-social behaviour in ways that have been seen (or at least thought) to be effective in the past. 

[Hope]

Hope, you are absolutely unbelieveable!

A 70lb 8 year old with a paring knife (normally about 4 inches long including handle)! Just what danger would you evisage this scenario would present to fully grown adult policemen in full rig-out?

I can envisage no circumstances that justify their actions.

Unless, of course, the child was a martial arts prodigy!   

And what makes you think that it was only police 'in danger'?  Surely the police were called because there was an existing situation in progress - and just because a paring knife is but 4 inches long, it doesn't mean it's wielder can't inflict very serious injury.  Imagine the cutting of an artery in the wrist as an adult seeks to disarm the child.

[Brownie]

Hope re: knock on effect of armed police:  "...police (and others) will often respond to anti-social behaviour in ways that have been seen (or at least thought) to be effective in the past."

You are right there, I sincerely hope that is something not copied from America by the UK.  We have enough problems as it is already - but you never know what's round the corner.

[Hope]

Hope re: knock on effect of armed police:  "...police (and others) will often respond to anti-social behaviour in ways that have been seen (or at least thought) to be effective in the past."

You are right there, I sincerely hope that is something not copied from America by the UK.  We have enough problems as it is already - but you never know what's round the corner.

Don't worry, it isn't anything copied from the US.  It has been happening here in Britain since before the US was founded, even before the UK was founded.

[Brownie]

Maybe;  not so widespread, certainly not acceptable - or legal.

[Owlswing]

And what makes you think that it was only police 'in danger'?  Surely the police were called because there was an existing situation in progress - and just because a paring knife is but 4 inches long, it doesn't mean it's wielder can't inflict very serious injury.  Imagine the cutting of an artery in the wrist as an adult seeks to disarm the child.

Maybe you should have read the link in the OP - by the polices own admission NO_-ONE ELSE WAS IN DANGER!

Four police officers decided that this young girl who had a small paring knife was “a danger to herself,” requiring them to taser her.

[Brownie]

She could well have severed an artery and killed herself.  It happens with far less than a 4" paring knife.
Hopefully she has received some decent help since this incident.

[Owlswing]

She could well have severed an artery and killed herself.  It happens with far less than a 4" paring knife.
Hopefully she has received some decent help since this incident.

So far as I personally am concerned she should not have needed help, decent or otherwise!

[Hope]

Maybe you should have read the link in the OP - by the polices own admission NO_-ONE ELSE WAS IN DANGER!

Four police officers decided that this young girl who had a small paring knife was “a danger to herself,” requiring them to taser her.

Hi Owl, for some reason I haven't been able to read the original link, so I've been dealing 'in principle' to an extent.  Your clarification has been helpful as it now gives me a better picture of the issue. 

[Nearly Sane]

Hi Owl, for some reason I haven't been able to read the original link, so I've been dealing 'in principle' to an extent.  Your clarification has been helpful as it now gives me a better picture of the issue.

Have you been able to use Brownie's link in the first reply or pick up on the expansion from Owlswing in the second reply?

[Owlswing]

Hi Owl, for some reason I haven't been able to read the original link, so I've been dealing 'in principle' to an extent.  Your clarification has been helpful as it now gives me a better picture of the issue.

In other words the contents of all your posts on this thread so far have been illinformed rubbish!

No surprise there then!