Brexit - the next steps

[jeremyp]

Callow youth and brexit minster Stephen Barclay has admitted that Theresa May is going to run down the clock on brexit.

Someone must now call for a vote of no confidence in T May in parliament.

As the no confidence vote showed and also the last challenge to Corbyn showed, you'd better be sure you are going to win if you challenge the incumbents.

[jakswan]

On Marr today, "A very clear answer there in a 2nd referendum Labour would advocate leaving the EU but with a Labour deal" (likely Norway model).

Looks like remainers are out of cards to play!

[Gordon]

On Marr today, "A very clear answer there in a 2nd referendum Labour would advocate leaving the EU but with a Labour deal" (likely Norway model).

Looks like remainers are out of cards to play!

Even if Labour would like their form of Brexit to be an option, which would require as yet unspecified negotiations, I can't imagine they'd get away with a 2nd referendum without a 'Remain in the EU' choice - especially since the recent ECJ decision makes 'Remain' an option that doesn't require any other consultation or negotiation.

[jakswan]

Even if Labour would like their form of Brexit to be an option, which would require as yet unspecified negotiations, I can't imagine they'd get away with a 2nd referendum without a 'Remain in the EU' choice - especially since the recent ECJ decision makes 'Remain' an option that doesn't require any other consultation or negotiation.

Get away with? We have voted Leave that is a settled issue. Their position will be, Canada or Norway type deal, this respects the result of the first referendum and gives people a choice on final deal.

They know this will spark a civil war in Labour party so they are not explicitly saying it, stops any uproar for now.
 
Marr's question:-
"A very clear answer there in a 2nd referendum Labour would advocate leaving the EU but with a Labour deal?"

The reply was not: No.

[Gordon]

Get away with? We have voted Leave that is a settled issue. Their position will be, Canada or Norway type deal, this respects the result of the first referendum and gives people a choice on final deal.

They know this will spark a civil war in Labour party so they are not explicitly saying it, stops any uproar for now.
 
Marr's question:-
"A very clear answer there in a 2nd referendum Labour would advocate leaving the EU but with a Labour deal?"

The reply was not: No.

Time will tell: hard to see the status quo not being an option.

I see no need to respect the 2016 result given the lack of meaningful information, and the current situation highlights that this information is relevant - I don't recall discussion of a backstop back then.

Maybe we can stop this madness yet.

[ad_orientem]

I find it very condescending when some claim people didn't know what they were voting for. The question was simple. Leave or remain. People knew exactly what they were voting for.

[Roses]

I find it very condescending when some claim people didn't know what they were voting for. The question was simple. Leave or remain. People knew exactly what they were voting for.

But some didn't. I have encountered quite a number who hadn't a clue what they were voting for.

[ad_orientem]

But some didn't. I have encountered quite a number who hadn't a clue what they were voting for.

What, they didn't know what leave or remain means? Stone me! UK education system is fucked! English people don't understand English.

[Gordon]

What, they didn't know what leave or remain means? Stone me! UK education system is fucked! English people don't understand English.

I'm not English.

[ad_orientem]

I'm not English.

English or Scotch but speak the same language (some might argue).

[Roses]

English or Scotch but speak the same language (some might argue).

Now I wonder which Scotch Gordon is, my husband is very partial to single malts, Glenffidich in particular .

[ad_orientem]

Now I wonder which Scotch Gordon is, my husband is very partial to single malts, Glenffidich in particular .

Ho ho! No offence to anyone intended. When I was a kid a person from Scotland was more often than not Scotch rather than Scottish.

[jakswan]

Time will tell: hard to see the status quo not being an option.

Very easy, we have voted to leave, we leave. Next vote will be the manor of relationship going forward.

I see no need to respect the 2016 result given the lack of meaningful information, and the current situation highlights that this information is relevant - I don't recall discussion of a backstop back then.

We are discussing what is going to happen next, your views are almost entirely irrelevant, the politicians feel the need to respect the referendum, this will greatly influence what will happen next.

Maybe we can stop this madness yet.

Why is it madness? I voted leave for almost exactly the same reasons you voted for Scottish independence.

Why are in you in favour of EU?

[ProfessorDavey]

Very easy, we have voted to leave, we leave. Next vote will be the manor of relationship going forward.

If there is another referendum it has to include remain - anything else would lack any kind of democratic legitimacy. Plus it would never get through Parliament.

[Roses]

If there is another referendum it has to include remain - anything else would lack any kind of democratic legitimacy. Plus it would never get through Parliament.

I agree.

[Gordon]

Why are in you in favour of EU?

I'm not so much in favour of the EU as against leaving it via the current shambles, and in particular; a) as the result of a referendum that occurred for reasons mainly to do with internal Tory politics and isn't legally binding anyway, b) it was also an attempt by the Tories to 'out-UKIP' UKIP (and look where UKIP are now), c) the referendum occurred without any risk assessment of a 'leave' result (such as the NI border issue), and d) some of the issues raised by the Leave campaign were outright lies and played on the xenophobia that some parts of the UK were clearly more sensitive to than were others.

I'd have thought the current outbreak of political madness would be sufficient to convince anyone that if there was ever a good case and subsequent approach to leaving the EU - what is happening now certainly isn't it. 

[Gordon]

Ho ho! No offence to anyone intended. When I was a kid a person from Scotland was more often than not Scotch rather than Scottish.

'Scotch' is used as a descriptor for produce, Scotch whisky being the obvious example, but not usually for Scottish people, where 'Scots' would  be the usual term: some Scots would consider being referred to as 'Scotch' as being a pejorative.

[Spud]

I find it very condescending when some claim people didn't know what they were voting for. The question was simple. Leave or remain. People knew exactly what they were voting for.

Lots of us voted with hard brexit in mind, not realizing it could break up the UK.

[jakswan]

If there is another referendum it has to include remain - anything else would lack any kind of democratic legitimacy. Plus it would never get through Parliament.

Nope if you listen to Labour I think it's fair to conclude that Remain will not be an option, also applies to Tories, I seem to recall a news report of that earlier in the thread. It is democratic, we have had a vote to leave, that is in the past, now we vote on the future relationship.

It would get through Parliament if Labour Front Bench support it.

[ad_orientem]

'Scotch' is used as a descriptor for produce, Scotch whisky being the obvious example, but not usually for Scottish people, where 'Scots' would  be the usual term: some Scots would consider being referred to as 'Scotch' as being a pejorative.

Then I apologise. Sorry. I'll use Scots or Scottish from now on.

[Gordon]

Then I apologise. Sorry. I'll use Scots or Scottish from now on.

Thank you.

[jakswan]

I'm not so much in favour of the EU as against leaving it via the current shambles, and in particular; a) as the result of a referendum that occurred for reasons mainly to do with internal Tory politics and isn't legally binding anyway, b) it was also an attempt by the Tories to 'out-UKIP' UKIP (and look where UKIP are now), c) the referendum occurred without any risk assessment of a 'leave' result (such as the NI border issue), and d) some of the issues raised by the Leave campaign were outright lies and played on the xenophobia that some parts of the UK were clearly more sensitive to than were others.

50th time, all three UK parties supported the referendum, you can carry on lying if you like.

I'd have thought the current outbreak of political madness would be sufficient to convince anyone that if there was ever a good case and subsequent approach to leaving the EU - what is happening now certainly isn't it.

UKIP win Euro election, almost the entire political establishment support a referendum and pass it into law, they don't like the result, and the madness is the remianiacs who will not accept the result.

Isn't it madness to reinvent your own history and telling yourself that something is going to happen that doesn't look like it is.

[Gordon]

50th time, all three UK parties supported the referendum, you can carry on lying if you like.

So what: the dominant party in Scotland is not one of those three, so there are other political views available.

UKIP win Euro election, almost the entire political establishment support a referendum and pass it into law, they don't like the result, and the madness is the remianiacs who will not accept the result.

Isn't it madness to reinvent your own history and telling yourself that something is going to happen that doesn't look like it is.

The current process is a clusterfuck of the first magnitude because those advancing it and supporting it still don't know, over 2 years after the vote, and a few months before a critical date, what will actually happen and whether or not the government can survive should their plans be voted down in Westminster.

Seems to me that irrespective of views for or against Brexit the current situation is a toxic and shambolic mess that should be put out of its misery while there is still time to do so.

[ProfessorDavey]

50th time, all three UK parties supported the referendum, you can carry on lying if you like.

So what - the same 3 parties all supported remain in that referendum.

[SteveH]

'Scotch' is used as a descriptor for produce, Scotch whisky being the obvious example, but not usually for Scottish people, where 'Scots' would  be the usual term: some Scots would consider being referred to as 'Scotch' as being a pejorative.

It used to be a class difference: the upper class called anyone or thing from Scotland "Scotch", hoi polloi called them "Scottish".