Author Topic: Brexit - the next steps  (Read 410061 times)

jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6125 on: December 31, 2020, 02:53:05 PM »
Your post seems a complete non sequitur to the thread I posted.

But it's actually true. If more MPs had put the interests of the country ahead of their careers, we would not have left the EU.
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jakswan

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6126 on: December 31, 2020, 03:23:23 PM »
Your post seems a complete non sequitur to the thread I posted.

From your linked article:-
It is the absolute travesty of parliamentary democracy that is about to play out

I know you are an SNP fan boy but SNP's role in getting Parliament into that position has been pivotal.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6127 on: December 31, 2020, 04:03:53 PM »
From your linked article:-
It is the absolute travesty of parliamentary democracy that is about to play out

I know you are an SNP fan boy but SNP's role in getting Parliament into that position has been pivotal.
  Yes, and your post was  non sequitur to that.

Also your attempt at an ad hominem is incorrect.



Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6128 on: December 31, 2020, 04:05:00 PM »
But it's actually true. If more MPs had put the interests of the country ahead of their careers, we would not have left the EU.
Doesn't stop it being a non sequitur to my post.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6129 on: December 31, 2020, 04:11:09 PM »
Interesting (if depressing) Guardian article re the appalling damage we’ve done to our international reputation:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/31/the-view-from-europe-uk-taken-over-by-gamblers-liars-clowns-and-their-cheerleaders
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6130 on: December 31, 2020, 05:43:13 PM »
But Scotland is not being abused by England.
My post doesn't say anything like that. The point is saying that there is no point in seeking independence because the WM govt will be bastards is not a good argument for staying in the union.

jakswan

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6131 on: December 31, 2020, 08:41:34 PM »
  Yes, and your post was  non sequitur to that.

I've explained how it wasn't.

Quote
Also your attempt at an ad hominem is incorrect.

Where was the ad hominem?

You cited an article which said 'It is the absolute travesty of parliamentary democracy that is about to play out'.

I did not disagree just state I'm of the opinion that SNP played a pivotal role in getting parliament into that position.

I did suggest as a supporter of SNP you were perhaps not likely not to agree.

Opinions are not facts therefore not subject to fallacy.

NearlySane bingo what will be the next Latin phrase he knocks out! :)
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6132 on: December 31, 2020, 10:39:39 PM »
With barely half an hour to go before the most epic act of self harm in modern history, just a final thought for what it’s worth: as the Brexit disaster unfolds and the blame game to come plays out, those of us who were right but lost the rigged referendum should perhaps take comfort from one idea - playing the long game. At some time the current crop of liars, chancers and opportunists will be gone and maybe, just maybe, we’ll reapply for EU membership. Sure the deal could never be as good as the one we just threw away, but maybe the billions Johnson et al have cost us as they screwed the country I love will be their final, grim legacy.

Who can say, but in any case no matter how impoverished and vulnerable these people have left us I wish a happy new year one and all aboard our odd little ship of fools. All best.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 10:41:44 PM by bluehillside Retd. »
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6133 on: January 01, 2021, 11:10:43 AM »
I think that the most bitter irony forJohnson is that - in the not very distant future - his numerous descendants will be learning of his incompetent and disastrous occupancy of Downing Street in their history lessons.

Interesting set of programmes on BBC 4 about that new-ish phenomenon "celebrity". Both the outgoing President of the USA and the current First Lord of the Treasury have relied on transient, vacuous behaviour which ensured their continued exposure in the gutter press for their ascendence.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6134 on: January 01, 2021, 02:14:45 PM »


“I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

Iain Duncan Smith

Aruntraveller

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6135 on: January 02, 2021, 09:33:00 AM »

“I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

Iain Duncan Smith

Yep. I winced when I heard that. Tone fucking deaf.
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Gordon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6136 on: January 04, 2021, 01:51:54 PM »
Another complication of the wonderful Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6137 on: January 04, 2021, 04:56:29 PM »
My post doesn't say anything like that. The point is saying that there is no point in seeking independence because the WM govt will be bastards is not a good argument for staying in the union.
Nobody is making that point though. I'm saying that independence from the UK will make Brexit seem like a picnic because of the relative difficulty of unravelling the existing ties
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jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6138 on: January 04, 2021, 04:57:03 PM »
Another complication of the wonderful Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

I came here to post exactly that.

Not going well so far is it.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6139 on: January 04, 2021, 05:01:43 PM »
Nobody is making that point though. I'm saying that independence from the UK will make Brexit seem like a picnic because of the relative difficulty of unravelling the existing ties

I was replying Trent's post which said


'You surely aren't expecting a UK Conservative Government to treat you fairly. I am aware of the inherent irony of that statement in that that is one of the driving forces for independence in the first place.'

So yes, that point was being made by Trent.

jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6140 on: January 04, 2021, 05:04:26 PM »
I was replying Trent's post which said


'You surely aren't expecting a UK Conservative Government to treat you fairly. I am aware of the inherent irony of that statement in that that is one of the driving forces for independence in the first place.'

So yes, that point was being made by Trent.
OK. I stand corrected. But if you ever do get to the point of negotiating independence, you won't be dealing with a Conservative government. There's no way Boris or his Tory successors will countenance breaking up the UK (ironically).
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Gordon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6141 on: January 04, 2021, 06:38:27 PM »
OK. I stand corrected. But if you ever do get to the point of negotiating independence, you won't be dealing with a Conservative government. There's no way Boris or his Tory successors will countenance breaking up the UK (ironically).

On that I bumped into an old friend today: a long-term Scottish Labour member/activist who is pro UK and anti-Brexit, and I asked her what she thought of her party's chance in the forthcoming Holyrood elections (not much, she said), and then we talked of the prospects of Inyref2.

Her view is that the Tories, no matter what they say, might find it in their long-term interests to see Scotland separate from the UK since, given the established support for the SNP here, and as the problems of Brexit and Tory ministerial incompetence become increasingly obvious (and they already are), and if support for Johnson/Tories then erodes and support for Labour increases in England, there is the possibility that at the next GE a resurgent Labour could govern with the support of the SNP (like May arranged with the DUP) and, if so, then the Tories are out - so, according to my friend, the Tories might conclude they'd have a better chance of retaining power if the SNP/Scotland are out of Westminster by the time of the next GE.

Of course, she could be wrong.     

jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6142 on: January 05, 2021, 01:27:13 PM »
Good news. I have found an advantage of Bexit.  Jakswan and Ippy, no need to thank me for doing your job

As of 1st January, women's sanitary products were zero rated for VAT.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tampon-tax-abolished-from-today

Theoretically, women in Britain should pay 4.8% less for tampons than on December 31st. Of course retailers might choose to absorb the change as increased margin.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6143 on: January 05, 2021, 01:40:17 PM »
Good news. I have found an advantage of Bexit.  Jakswan and Ippy, no need to thank me for doing your job

As of 1st January, women's sanitary products were zero rated for VAT.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tampon-tax-abolished-from-today

Theoretically, women in Britain should pay 4.8% less for tampons than on December 31st. Of course retailers might choose to absorb the change as increased margin.
First of all, they could have done this anyway, as the change to the EU law came in on the first. Secondly when it was proposed in 2015, the Tories voted against it. Third in Scotland we have moved to make period products free.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 01:42:25 PM by Nearly Sane »

jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6144 on: January 05, 2021, 01:58:12 PM »
First of all, they could have done this anyway, as the change to the EU law came in on the first. Secondly when it was proposed in 2015, the Tories voted against it. Third in Scotland we have moved to make period products free.

Actually, it's worse than that.

Apparently, in 2016 we persuaded the EU to zero rate sanitary products, but because of the referendum they stopped listening to us.

http://infacts.org/we-dont-need-to-leave-the-eu-to-scrap-the-tampon-tax/

We could have had zero rated tampons in 2017 in the whole EU if we hadn't decided to tell them to fuck off.

Scotland's free tampon policy looks like one from a country that doesn't have to pay its own bills.
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jakswan

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6145 on: January 05, 2021, 03:44:49 PM »
Jakswan .....no need to thank me for doing your job

News to me that this is my job. :)

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Gordon

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6147 on: January 06, 2021, 06:56:07 PM »
Nice to see it is going well (not).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/06/northern-ireland-facing-food-supply-disruption-over-brexit-mps-told

Hard to feel sympathy for the DUP but it is obvious that Johnson lied when he promised no border in the Irish Sea

Nearly Sane

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Gordon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #6149 on: January 10, 2021, 08:26:06 AM »