Brexit - the next steps

[jeremyp]

I think both Tories and Labour are trying to avoid annoying either Leave voters or Remain voters.

They've both failed as far as this voter is concerned. However, for balance, the Lib Dems have also annoyed me for being absolutely fucking useless.

I still voted for them. I'd have voted Labour at the last GE if they had come out as anti Brexit but then they won my constituency without my help anyway.

[Udayana]

Given the 2 years added for transitional arrangements, the probability of extension of the period and internal conflicts within the the Tory party the chances that we will have a general election prior to a "final deal" seem high. Doesn't look like anyone will be prepared, with solid policies, to sort the issues even then!

Mind, anything could happen in that period.
 

[Nearly Sane]

First in the queue for a very unfree trade deal



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41397181

[Nearly Sane]

This underlines quite how powerless May is




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41441444

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Peston reckons Davis will have to come clean on how big a turd Brexit is/will be if it's no deal.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Refusal from Davis to publish studies on the effect of Brexit.
That Brexit is unstoppable is merely policy, not due to any legal reason.

Source The Guardian

[Walt Zingmatilder]

First it was billions to the DUP now Tories are prepared to waste billions on custom clearance technology if there is no deal.
Waste waste waste. There will be fuck all to show for it.

[jeremyp]

First it was billions to the DUP now Tories are prepared to waste billions on custom clearance technology if there is no deal.
Waste waste waste. There will be fuck all to show for it.

If you are a manufacturer of customs technology, there will be plenty to show for it.

I travelled to Brussels on the Eurostar last week. If you've ever been on Eurostar, you'll be aware that you go through passport control at the start of the journey, so you have to go through French passport control in St Pancras. French passport control at St Pancras consists of a man, a dog and about 10 biometric passport gates for people with "European biometric passports". I wonder if I'll still be able to use them after Brexit, they cut at least 10 minutes off the queue.

It would be a fairly trivial annoyance, but all these trivial annoyances soon add up to a major fuck up.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If you are a manufacturer of customs technology, there will be plenty to show for it.

I travelled to Brussels on the Eurostar last week. If you've ever been on Eurostar, you'll be aware that you go through passport control at the start of the journey, so you have to go through French passport control in St Pancras. French passport control at St Pancras consists of a man, a dog and about 10 biometric passport gates for people with "European biometric passports". I wonder if I'll still be able to use them after Brexit, they cut at least 10 minutes off the queue.

It would be a fairly trivial annoyance, but all these trivial annoyances soon add up to a major fuck up.

Is this customs identification technology even British? Or are they European. And surely EU companies will be able to tender under EU rules right up to the moment the technology needs to be used.

Name one major state IT project that wasn't a fuck up.

[jeremyp]

Is this customs identification technology even British? Or are they European. And surely EU companies will be able to tender under EU rules right up to the moment the technology needs to be used.

I've no idea. The hardware is most likely all manufactured in the Far East, but the real money is in the software and the integration. Biometric passport gates are generally really useful, but we already have them. If we leave the EU though, we might have to set up a parallel system, which is, of course, a waste of money.

Name one major state IT project that wasn't a fuck up.

I worked on the first electronic UK passport system. If you had a passport issued any time after 1993 and before 2001, your application went through some of my code. There were some teething troubles with it, but generally, it went pretty well.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I've no idea. The hardware is most likely all manufactured in the Far East, but the real money is in the software and the integration. Biometric passport gates are generally really useful, but we already have them. If we leave the EU though, we might have to set up a parallel system, which is, of course, a waste of money.
I worked on the first electronic UK passport system. If you had a passport issued any time after 1993 and before 2001, your application went through some of my code. There were some teething troubles with it, but generally, it went pretty well.

Then you can use the lines William Wallace's Irish lieutenant says in MelGibsons Braveheart.

""Looks like I'm alright but your fucked"

[Walt Zingmatilder]

BBC fact sheet on what the different Brexits look like ...maybe somewhere between Switzerland and turkey> The so called Swurkish solution?

[Sebastian Toe]

BBC fact sheet on what the different Brexits look like ...maybe somewhere between Switzerland and turkey> The so called Swurkish solution?

I'd have liked a France/Turkey solution if there was one!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Swift Brexit audit
As good as membership/no worse than membership Not encouraging.
Free trade deal with Europe not encouraging
Preferential front of queue deals with America not encouraging
£350 million pounds for NHS not encouraging

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Where are all the forum brexiteers now?
We are still waiting for a plan.
What about that easy deal with the EU?
Hammond didn't have the balls to cope with Dacre or the Barclay's and had to blurtout stuff about 'enemies'.

May in dire straights because she has to reveal the magic money tree to shake for Rees Mogg and the the Hard Brexshitters.

[wigginhall]

One interesting idea I keep coming across is that the headbangers partly want to walk out from the negotiations, because the full ghastliness and wreckage of Brexit is seeping into popular consciousness, and they want to stop this, before there is a mass demand to cancel it.   It's an interesting idea, but I don't know how true it is.   The Mail/Express/Telegraph faction are certainly beating the drum.

[jeremyp]

So if there are any Brexiteers left reading this thread, did you honestly expect it to be going like this? I'd be interested to know.

[Harrowby Hall]

So if there are any Brexiteers left reading this thread, did you honestly expect it to be going like this? I'd be interested to know.

I am an out-and-out remainer, so I'm not answering your question.

It's "going like this" because Mrs May, like her immediate predecessor, has been more concerned with the condition of the Conservative Party than the condition of the United Kingdom.

[Nearly Sane]

I am not a Brexiteer but I was amenable to respecting the referendum, even though it didn't need to be as it was advisory, and I wanted Corbyn to offer to work with the govt after the election to get the best deal, and would have liked the govt to seek an all party approach. This was because I feared the Tory govt weren't in a strong position and that infighting might be a problem. I count myself as as sceptic on politics, I have low, often negligible expectations. Even with the Hubble telescope I can't see how far below those low expectations this govt is.

[wigginhall]

I suppose Mrs May and her group are paralyzed by the Ultras, therefore she cannot go for soft Brexit, or EEA, or the Norway solution, as the headbangers will have a tantrum, and Boris will declare that we are a roaring lion, and it's all the fault of the EU.   

[Gordon]

The small majority who voted for this madness did so on the basis of the idea of Brexit, given there was no indication of what it entailed, aside from misinformation, since nobody thought we'd get the result we did get.

The problem is not only are we none the wiser 15 months or so later but it also seems that these much-vaunted negotiations are unsatisfactory - I suspect because it is becoming increasingly obvious to all but the Brexit zealots that perhaps Brexit is a bad idea, and this might have been obvious had some due diligence been done prior to letting people make an uninformed choice.

Captain May is steering the boat towards the rocks and seemingly now thinks it best that she 'accelerates' - this is sheer madness and somebody needs to find a democratic way to reconsider - but that would require a PM who isn't weak and isn't being held hostage by a wing of their own political party.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

A third party is needed to referee. Dalai Lama or the Pope?

[Sebastian Toe]

A third party is needed to referee. Dalai Lama or the Pope?

Billy Connolly.
And before you try it - he's funny every time he goes on stage!

[jeremyp]

I am not a Brexiteer but I was amenable to respecting the referendum, even though it didn't need to be as it was advisory, and I wanted Corbyn to offer to work with the govt after the election to get the best deal, and would have liked the govt to seek an all party approach. This was because I feared the Tory govt weren't in a strong position and that infighting might be a problem. I count myself as as sceptic on politics, I have low, often negligible expectations. Even with the Hubble telescope I can't see how far below those low expectations this govt is.

The reason I am interested in what the Brexiteers think about the current situation is because I don't think any of us could have foreseen how utterly incompetent our negotiators would turn out to be. Like you, I had low expectations, but what is actually happening goes well beyond missing our expectations - it is a farce.

[wigginhall]

The government can't settle their own differences, or the differences of the Tory party, hence cannot give any direction at all, or present a coherent position.   But May seems in hock to the Ultras, who actually want to crash out, with who knows what consequences.