Brexit - the next steps

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Political opinion static because people feel there is an emergency on.
Right wingers want Brexit now because they feel that even a scintilla of recovery will get them elected.

[Rhiannon]

Cracking interview with Anna Soubry.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/26/anna-soubry-interview-brexit-history-will-condemn-this-period

[Gordon]

Not only did those who voted for Brexit not know what was entailed it seems that some would rather they didn't know even now when there is more information available: including other MPs.

Isn't democracy wonderful!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42142882

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Story on how much information on Brexit effect Davis provided mysteriously ended on BBC News.

[jeremyp]

Not only did those who voted for Brexit not know what was entailed it seems that some would rather they didn't know even now when there is more information available: including other MPs.

Isn't democracy wonderful!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42142882

FTA

Mr Davis said the papers had been redacted because there was no guarantee the committee would keep them secret.

Holy fuck. Why does he think they need to be kept secret? Don't we have a right to know what the effect of our decision to leave the EU will be?

The contrast between the approach of our sovereign government elected by us and the unelected EU negotiators is illuminating. They are being completely transparent whereas we aren't even allowed to know what's going on from our side. I wonder if the EU will give me permission to transfer my citizenship to the EU. I don't want to be part of this anymore.

[Nearly Sane]

We broke it therefore you have to pay for it.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42137597

[ProfessorDavey]

Story on how much information on Brexit effect Davis provided mysteriously ended on BBC News.

Wasn't even reported at all on the 10 o'clock news. I would have thought this is a big story - parliament voted that the reports, in full (i.e. non redacted), should, be provided to the relevant select committee - and that it was for that committee to scrutinise the full details and to decide what could be released into the public domain and what needed to be redacted. David Davis has provided highly redacted reports, clearly contravening what parliament had decided.

Seems to me that Davis is in contempt of parliament - but also whatever happened to the whole parliament is sovereign mantra that was one of the big claims for the leave campaign, that a vote to leave would bring power back to the Westminster parliament.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Wasn't even reported at all on the 10 o'clock news. I would have thought this is a big story - parliament voted that the reports, in full (i.e. non redacted), should, be provided to the relevant select committee - and that it was for that committee to scrutinise the full details and to decide what could be released into the public domain and what needed to be redacted. David Davis has provided highly redacted reports, clearly contravening what parliament had decided.

Seems to me that Davis is in contempt of parliament - but also whatever happened to the whole parliament is sovereign mantra that was one of the big claims for the leave campaign, that a vote to leave would bring power back to the Westminster parliament.

So story pulled half way through at 9.15 on BBC News channel and disappeared on the 10 o'clock news.

[Aruntraveller]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42161346

Can someone do the maths as to how many times £350 million goes into 50 billion euros?

[floo]

Can someone do the maths as to how many times £350 million goes into 50 billion euros?

Not me, I have difficulty with the simplest of sums like 2+2!

[Rhiannon]

Can someone do the maths as to how many times £350 million goes into 50 billion euros?

I make it 126ish. Well, my phone does.

[Stranger]

I make it 126ish. Well, my phone does.

Yes - I got that figure - mathematically correct but, as has been pointed out before, the £350 million cost is just a barefaced lie.

[Nearly Sane]

Description of  David Davis  'The man who paid full price for a DFS sofa'

[Rhiannon]

Do you think that they are aware of how utterly inept they look? Or how completely out of their depth they are?

[Nearly Sane]

Do you think that they are aware of how utterly inept they look? Or how completely out of their depth they are?

IDS on Channel 4 news last night said the Irish were being difficult because of the upcoming Presidential election. Only problem the election is Nov 2018 and the President doesn't have political power.  I now have no idea. At times I suspect this is being done for a bet.

[Rhiannon]

The trouble is that Brexit is really important. Distractions from it are bad.

You are assuming that people understand what is going wrong any more than they understood what they were voting for or against.

[ProfessorDavey]

The trouble is that Brexit is really important. Distractions from it are bad.

I agree - but it does play to the jingoist - 'hey look how great Britain is' tendency. I suspect it is increasingly a law of diminishing returns with fewer and fewer people really giving a damned - despite what the media try to tell us we should think.

 

[ippy]

The trouble is that Brexit is really important. Distractions from it are bad.

Yes you're right j p, it's very important that we complete our seperation from the E U.

Regards ippy

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes you're right j p, it's very important that we complete our seperation from the E U.

Which one - the one we were promised by the Leave campaign during the referendum, with its £350m a week boost for the NHS, its maintenance of memberships of the 'free trade zone that extends from Iceland to the Russian border', its return of sovereignty to parliament, its free trade deals sorted within months of the referendum with countries across the globe, the one without a slowing economy, without our credit rating slashed, the pound crashing.

Or the reality.

[ippy]

Which one - the one we were promised by the Leave campaign during the referendum, with its £350m a week boost for the NHS, its maintenance of memberships of the 'free trade zone that extends from Iceland to the Russian border', its return of sovereignty to parliament, its free trade deals sorted within months of the referendum with countries across the globe, the one without a slowing economy, without our credit rating slashed, the pound crashing.

Or the reality.

That is a point of view, we're unlikely to agree, the point is we are leaving so we need to get on with it and make the effort necessary to make a success of leaving.

Regards ippy

[ProfessorDavey]

That is a point of view, we're unlikely to agree, the point is we are leaving so we need to get on with it and make the effort necessary to make a success of leaving.

Regards ippy

Or take stock, decide once we have seen the reality of a real deal on offer (rather than a hypothetical pollyanna-ish wish list) that it isn't in the best interests of the country and provide an opportunity for people, democratically, to change their minds.

Who was it who said this:

"If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Or take stock, decide once we have seen the reality of a real deal on offer (rather than a hypothetical pollyanna-ish wish list) that it isn't in the best interests of the country and provide an opportunity for people, democratically, to change their minds.

Who was it who said this:

"If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."

Agreed, I would use the analogy of being offered a TUPE, and then ultimately deciding to stay with the original firm.

[ippy]

Or take stock, decide once we have seen the reality of a real deal on offer (rather than a hypothetical pollyanna-ish wish list) that it isn't in the best interests of the country and provide an opportunity for people, democratically, to change their minds.

Who was it who said this:

"If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."

I will join any agency necessary to prevent having referendum after referendum until you remoaners get your way, because that would be removing the decision from those that in reality have the best interests of our country in mind and took this democratic opportunity to vote leave. (We're not likely to agree).

Regards ippy

[floo]

The leavers will probably rue the day they voted for Brexit, imo.

[Gordon]

I will join any agency necessary to prevent having referendum after referendum until you remoaners get your way, because that would be removing the decision from those that in reality have the best interests of our country in mind and took this democratic opportunity to vote leave. (We're not likely to agree).

Regards ippy

That would be your country, ippy, not mine: my country is being dragged out of the EU by your country.