Author Topic: Brexit - the next steps  (Read 418263 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1250 on: December 06, 2017, 07:10:18 PM »
Davis has got away with it.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1251 on: December 06, 2017, 07:17:30 PM »
The question is now is are there or were there impact assessments.
Davis statement has been a bit like that Donovan song First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is.

Spud

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1252 on: December 06, 2017, 10:08:57 PM »
Who do you know who this happened to? Did it happen to you?
Yes. So basically a long time ago I worked on a fruit farm in Kent during the holidays while I was a student, and loved it, then after a few years couldn't find work in the career I trained for, so I tried to get work back at the same farm. By that time the farmer was employing dozens of Europeans who hogged all the apple trees (if you've ever done fruit picking you'll know apples and pears are great fun to pick), and I was relegated to strawberries, poor me. I had such a backache. At the time I really needed this job because for various reasons I don't fit the mold of commuter-up-to-london, which everyone who is anyone does in my town. So basically I ended up without a decent source of work, couldn't afford a car even.

Eastern Europeans can be nice, but I find that the majority are not reliable as long-term friends. That's why I think there has to be some control over the numbers coming here. I'm actually pro EU but for this policy of uncontrolled freedom of movement.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 10:11:49 PM by Spud »

Anchorman

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1253 on: December 06, 2017, 10:26:35 PM »
Yet the fruit farmers in Scotland - particularly the soft fruit industry - are appalled that migrant workers may be thin on the ground in future years. That's why the main Scottish parties - SNP, Scottish Greens, Scottish Labour and the LIbDems ( the Tories don't count) have united to call for immigration to be devolved to the parliaments and assemblie in this less than united 'kingdom'.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1254 on: December 06, 2017, 10:34:54 PM »
Yes. So basically a long time ago I worked on a fruit farm in Kent during the holidays while I was a student, and loved it, then after a few years couldn't find work in the career I trained for, so I tried to get work back at the same farm. By that time the farmer was employing dozens of Europeans who hogged all the apple trees (if you've ever done fruit picking you'll know apples and pears are great fun to pick), and I was relegated to strawberries, poor me. I had such a backache. At the time I really needed this job because for various reasons I don't fit the mold of commuter-up-to-london, which everyone who is anyone does in my town. So basically I ended up without a decent source of work, couldn't afford a car even.

Eastern Europeans can be nice, but I find that the majority are not reliable as long-term friends. That's why I think there has to be some control over the numbers coming here. I'm actually pro EU but for this policy of uncontrolled freedom of movement.

So what you are actually saying is that you went back to somewhere that you'd worked before but the 'best' jobs had been taken so that you had to do a job that didn't work so well for you? You didn't think a job would just be sitting there waiting for you?

Now if you said that you'd had to take a wage cut because of migrant labour that's a different thing. It is an effect of high immigration that employers can and do pay lower wages. On the other hand this can allow employers to expand and create more jobs.

Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1255 on: December 06, 2017, 10:51:12 PM »
Yes. So basically a long time ago I worked on a fruit farm in Kent during the holidays while I was a student, and loved it, then after a few years couldn't find work in the career I trained for, so I tried to get work back at the same farm. By that time the farmer was employing dozens of Europeans who hogged all the apple trees (if you've ever done fruit picking you'll know apples and pears are great fun to pick), and I was relegated to strawberries, poor me. I had such a backache. At the time I really needed this job because for various reasons I don't fit the mold of commuter-up-to-london, which everyone who is anyone does in my town. So basically I ended up without a decent source of work, couldn't afford a car even.

Oh Dear. One of my brothers, we are from suburban Kent, worked on a fruit farm in rural Kent in the nineties, two of the local boys picked a fight with him in a pub because one of the local girls quite liked him. He threw one of them over his shoulders, and knocked the other one over. And YES he was barred from the pub, not the local oiks. Nobody helped him, but it is half to their credit that nobody joined in against him either.

Quote
Eastern Europeans can be nice, but I find that the majority are not reliable as long-term friends. That's why I think there has to be some control over the numbers coming here. I'm actually pro EU but for this policy of uncontrolled freedom of movement.

One half of my family are south eastern European (Romanian). My wife is a qualified Electrical Engineer, my nephew is a policeman who trained at Hendon. Are you telling me that you do not want my family here?

jakswan

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1256 on: December 06, 2017, 10:54:51 PM »

Eh?
I raised the question of SF's reaction in order to get opinions.
I hadn't intended to mention the Scottish government's stance - but, hey, if you wish...
If NI gets even one concession denied Scotland, which also - sensibly - voted to remain - then the Scottish government is entitled to question every dot, comma and  other punctuation mark, and put every spanner in the already shambolic works of the burach Westminster has created in order to ensure Scotland gets the same privilege NI gets.

I think the SNP would need a supply agreement with the Tories for that to happen.

You still have answered my question; why are you in favour of the European Union but against the UK Union?
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jakswan

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1257 on: December 06, 2017, 10:57:50 PM »
Now if you said that you'd had to take a wage cut because of migrant labour that's a different thing. It is an effect of high immigration that employers can and do pay lower wages. On the other hand this can allow employers to expand and create more jobs.

Wow next you will be arguing the minimum wages should be abolished like a full blown hard line right-winger.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1258 on: December 06, 2017, 11:22:42 PM »
Quote
Eastern Europeans can be nice, but I find that the majority are not reliable as long-term friends. That's why I think there has to be some control over the numbers coming here. I'm actually pro EU but for this policy of uncontrolled freedom of movement.

That is certainly a novel approach to the issue of freedom of movement. Control the numbers because Eastern Europeans aren't reliable as long-term friends. Not heard that one before.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Robbie

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1259 on: December 06, 2017, 11:32:26 PM »
Yes. So basically a long time ago I worked on a fruit farm in Kent during the holidays while I was a student, and loved it, then after a few years couldn't find work in the career I trained for, so I tried to get work back at the same farm. By that time the farmer was employing dozens of Europeans who hogged all the apple trees (if you've ever done fruit picking you'll know apples and pears are great fun to pick), and I was relegated to strawberries, poor me. I had such a backache. At the time I really needed this job because for various reasons I don't fit the mold of commuter-up-to-london, which everyone who is anyone does in my town. So basically I ended up without a decent source of work, couldn't afford a car even.

Eastern Europeans can be nice, but I find that the majority are not reliable as long-term friends. That's why I think there has to be some control over the numbers coming here. I'm actually pro EU but for this policy of uncontrolled freedom of movement.

How interesting  ::)! You don't say why you don't fit the 'mold' of the commuter-up-to-London & I suppose that's your business but, honestly, you were probably no different to lots of other unemployed graduates. A solution would have been to get a job in London and live there in a house share which is what many young people do when they're starting out. It can be fun too.

It's not the fault of the Eastern Europeans that you couldn't go back to picking apples and pears and were relegated to strawberries. As Rhiannon said, did you expect your temporary job to be kept open for you or did you think one of the workers should be sacked to make room for you? The gap had to filled by someone.

As for "reliable long-term friends", how many of those do we make in a lifetime from a cast of millions of our own countrymen? People pass in and out of our lives, some are remembered with affection, others less so and a few stick around.

Ridiculous post Spud.

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Rhiannon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1260 on: December 06, 2017, 11:44:33 PM »
Wow next you will be arguing the minimum wages should be abolished like a full blown hard line right-winger.

Didn't know you were a woo peddler, Jak. Think you'll find that's the category fortune telling falls into. And mind reading.

torridon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1261 on: December 07, 2017, 07:35:40 AM »
Eastern Europeans can be nice, but I find that the majority are not reliable as long-term friends. That's why I think there has to be some control over the numbers coming here. I'm actually pro EU but for this policy of uncontrolled freedom of movement.

Ideally, we all want freedom, ultimately.  Barriers and obstacles are yesterday's news, so twentieth century.  To head back towards that model, towards isolation, revitalising arbitrary 'us and them' divides is a miserable step backwards imv.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1262 on: December 07, 2017, 07:51:41 AM »
Yes. So basically a long time ago I worked on a fruit farm in Kent during the holidays while I was a student, and loved it, then after a few years couldn't find work in the career I trained for, so I tried to get work back at the same farm. By that time the farmer was employing dozens of Europeans who hogged all the apple trees (if you've ever done fruit picking you'll know apples and pears are great fun to pick), and I was relegated to strawberries, poor me. I had such a backache. At the time I really needed this job because for various reasons I don't fit the mold of commuter-up-to-london, which everyone who is anyone does in my town. So basically I ended up without a decent source of work, couldn't afford a car even.
So you effectively were expected someone already in a job to be kicked out of that job to create a job for you. In what way would that be reasonable - they hadn't taken 'your' job, when they were offered the job you didn't want it.

Eastern Europeans can be nice, but I find that the majority are not reliable as long-term friends. That's why I think there has to be some control over the numbers coming here. I'm actually pro EU but for this policy of uncontrolled freedom of movement.
What a nasty little generalising xenophobic comment. You do understand that people from Eastern European countries are all individuals don't you.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1263 on: December 07, 2017, 08:21:54 AM »
BBC Breakfast gave Grayling a rigourous grilling this morning.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1264 on: December 07, 2017, 09:10:31 AM »
BBC Breakfast gave Grayling a rigourous grilling this morning.

No they didn't. Not one of the news channels had the guts to ask the question: "Was David Davies lying?" (about the impact statements).

He got off lightly if you ask me. 
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1265 on: December 07, 2017, 09:32:20 AM »
The country punished May in the election. That in turn cannot go unpunished. It's therefore a cruel going through the motions, crash out of Europe and mass unemployment.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1266 on: December 07, 2017, 09:35:58 AM »
The country punished May in the election. That in turn cannot go unpunished. It's therefore a cruel going through the motions, crash out of Europe and mass unemployment.

Whilst I yield to no-one in my absolute disdain for the Conservative party, that really is a wild and silly theory.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1267 on: December 07, 2017, 10:03:49 AM »
Whilst I yield to no-one in my absolute disdain for the Conservative party, that really is a wild and silly theory.
Not really. It all serves the purpose. A population desperate for work, willing to forgo rights and a traditional army of unemployed to haunt those in work all ruled by a government prepared to show that the only economic consideration is that of about 300 souls in the UK.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1268 on: December 07, 2017, 11:46:19 AM »
Whilst I yield to no-one in my absolute disdain for the Conservative party, that really is a wild and silly theory.
Of course they want a crash out. May could have gone for shit or bust and ignored the DUP.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1269 on: December 07, 2017, 11:59:50 AM »
The Grayling solution. Get the Irish and EU to construct and operate the Hard Border.
Only trouble is if they don't then no hard border in Ireland but one at Kent.

Spud

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1270 on: December 07, 2017, 12:11:00 PM »
Aw, thanks guys. I knew you'd understand.

jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1271 on: December 07, 2017, 12:50:58 PM »
the Tories don't count
Why not? Because you don't like them?
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Anchorman

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1272 on: December 07, 2017, 01:06:33 PM »
I think the SNP would need a supply agreement with the Tories for that to happen.

You still have answered my question; why are you in favour of the European Union but against the UK Union?
I think the SNP would need a supply agreement with the Tories for that to happen.

You still have answered my question; why are you in favour of the European Union but against the UK Union?
   
Because I am not british, have absolutely no  loyalty to britain, regard Westminster as an anachronistic absurdity, and wish my nation to take her place amongst other nations in a union of free nation states, rather than part of a moribund, failed political anachronism still dreaming of a greatness that was only ever imagination/.


Because I am not british, have no loyalty to britawin, regard Westmibnster aas an anachronistic absur
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

floo

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1273 on: December 07, 2017, 01:35:38 PM »
   
Because I am not british, have absolutely no  loyalty to britain, regard Westminster as an anachronistic absurdity, and wish my nation to take her place amongst other nations in a union of free nation states, rather than part of a moribund, failed political anachronism still dreaming of a greatness that was only ever imagination/.


Because I am not british, have no loyalty to britawin, regard Westmibnster aas an anachronistic absur

Whether you like it or not, you are still a Brit unless Scotland leaves the UK, which would be unwise, imo.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1274 on: December 07, 2017, 02:17:45 PM »
Whether you like it or not, you are still a Brit unless Scotland leaves the UK, which would be unwise, imo.
It would be unwise to remain in a UK where the DUP, John Redwood and Jacob Rees Mogg call the shots.