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Author Topic: Brexit - the next steps  (Read 418868 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1825 on: June 25, 2018, 01:45:03 PM »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1826 on: June 27, 2018, 10:54:49 AM »
Curiouser and curiouser... Brexit, Dark Money and the DUP


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44624299
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Rhiannon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1827 on: June 28, 2018, 09:39:12 AM »
Perhaps there won’t be an EU to stay in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44632471
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1828 on: June 28, 2018, 11:14:42 AM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on June 28, 2018, 09:39:12 AM
Perhaps there won’t be an EU to stay in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44632471
The EU is, like democracy, the worst of all possible systems, other than all the other systems.
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wigginhall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1829 on: June 29, 2018, 04:22:55 PM »
Hot news, the British government continues to negotiate with itself!   What a feat of auto-eroticism.   In other news, a deal may be reached in October.  Take your time.
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Spud

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1830 on: June 29, 2018, 05:15:19 PM »
If the EU is concerned about excessive immigration from nearby African countries then isn't it being hypocritical to say Britain should accept unlimited freedom of movement from nearby European countries?
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Spud

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1831 on: June 29, 2018, 05:18:31 PM »
Regarding the Irish border issue, would there be a similar problem for Spain and Portugal if one or the other country decided to leave the EU? Or France and Germany, or any country with a land border?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1832 on: June 29, 2018, 05:31:24 PM »
Quote from: Spud on June 29, 2018, 05:15:19 PM
If the EU is concerned about excessive immigration from nearby African countries then isn't it being hypocritical to say Britain should accept unlimited freedom of movement from nearby European countries?
No
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1833 on: June 29, 2018, 05:32:06 PM »
Quote from: Spud on June 29, 2018, 05:18:31 PM
Regarding the Irish border issue, would there be a similar problem for Spain and Portugal if one or the other country decided to leave the EU? Or France and Germany, or any country with a land border?
Yes.
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wigginhall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1834 on: June 29, 2018, 06:37:16 PM »
Quote from: Spud on June 29, 2018, 05:15:19 PM
If the EU is concerned about excessive immigration from nearby African countries then isn't it being hypocritical to say Britain should accept unlimited freedom of movement from nearby European countries?

I don't get the parallel.   The EU is a trading organization with certain rules, one of which concerns free movement of goods, capital, labour and services.   How does this connect with African countries?   Of course, when we leave the EU, we are no longer bound by those rules.
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Spud

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1835 on: June 30, 2018, 11:59:55 PM »
Quote from: wigginhall on June 29, 2018, 06:37:16 PM
I don't get the parallel.   The EU is a trading organization with certain rules, one of which concerns free movement of goods, capital, labour and services.   How does this connect with African countries?   Of course, when we leave the EU, we are no longer bound by those rules.
Yes, the difference is we don't have similar free movement agreements with Africa. But it must be conceivable that at some point an EU member state would find it had more EU immigration than it could handle, and that would outweigh the benefits of the agreement. In that scenario, being forced by the EU to accept unlimited immigration wouldn't be much different from the EU having boatloads of people from across the Mediterranean.
So I guess I'm saying, if the EU is so happy to impose unlimited migration on one member, it shouldn't have a problem accepting unlimited numbers from other continents.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 12:04:24 AM by Spud »
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wigginhall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1836 on: July 01, 2018, 09:03:53 AM »
It still doesn't follow.  If a group of countries accept free movement between themselves, why would they extend that to another group?

You can draw an analogy with Ireland, whose citizens have been allowed to live, work, and vote in the UK.    Does this mean that we should extend this to citizens of Iceland?   Rather unlikely, except in time of war.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 09:59:36 AM by wigginhall »
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Rhiannon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1837 on: July 01, 2018, 09:58:45 AM »
Quote from: Spud on June 30, 2018, 11:59:55 PM
Yes, the difference is we don't have similar free movement agreements with Africa. But it must be conceivable that at some point an EU member state would find it had more EU immigration than it could handle, and that would outweigh the benefits of the agreement. In that scenario, being forced by the EU to accept unlimited immigration wouldn't be much different from the EU having boatloads of people from across the Mediterranean.
So I guess I'm saying, if the EU is so happy to impose unlimited migration on one member, it shouldn't have a problem accepting unlimited numbers from other continents.

The EU is a group with common aims, and reciprocal arrangements over an array of things. It doesn't have those arrangements with African states.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1838 on: July 01, 2018, 11:56:03 AM »
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wigginhall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1839 on: July 01, 2018, 02:46:53 PM »
Going insane.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1840 on: July 01, 2018, 08:29:33 PM »
The European Medicines Agency is based in London ... at present!
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1841 on: July 02, 2018, 08:50:08 AM »
Why wasn't this on the side of the big red bus?
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1842 on: July 03, 2018, 08:51:36 AM »
It is surely clear to all that the hard right, by which I mean Gove, Boris, Rees-Mogg and Davis, are intent on creating a situation where we crash out with no deal at all. This, whether you voted leave or remain, is basic suicide by a nation state and is not in the best interest of the people of the UK. That May knows this, and is desperately trying to cobble some kind of compromise together in her weakened position, is even more depressing. We are, as others have noted previously, fucked.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1843 on: July 03, 2018, 09:31:36 AM »
And the thing is that I'm not convinced that Gove or Johnson really care personally. Davis and Rees Mogg may be unpleasant fuckers but they are at least sticking to their principles.
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wigginhall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1844 on: July 03, 2018, 09:50:07 AM »
It does seem insane that a right wing cabal has hijacked the Brexit vote, as if it was for hard Brexit.   It wasn't.   Actually, no deal is literally impossible,  as it would mean that trade would stop dead, no flights, driving licenses invalid.  This is obviously unreal.    It looks like a series of mini-deals will happen, on aviation,  services, well, hopefully.   The Tories don't really want empty supermarket shelves.   And of course, Labour are carrying May's bags for her.
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wigginhall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1845 on: July 03, 2018, 10:19:20 AM »
Some interesting reports that Trump wants to sabotage the EU, as it is a commercial rival.   So he offers Macron a big trade deal if France leaves.   It's getting weird, as Putin also is supposed to be sabotaging EU, and likes Trump.   Gulp.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1846 on: July 03, 2018, 05:44:17 PM »
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Rhiannon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1847 on: July 05, 2018, 10:16:02 AM »
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wigginhall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1848 on: July 11, 2018, 03:51:08 PM »
It's all quite odd right now, as May's deal looks unpopular with Tory grass roots, and with the EU.  Possible solutions then might be no deal, leading to economic harm, or a closer link to the single market.  This would be seen as too soft by the Ultras, but would they really bring down May, and risk an election?   Well, they might.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #1849 on: July 11, 2018, 03:54:12 PM »
I think with a few tweaks the EU might go for this in order to avoid no deal. Whether that can be then be sold to the party, not sure.
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