Brexit - the next steps

[jeremyp]

I hope so. But somehow I doubt it. I can't even think how the process for that will work. Could it be declared void because of electoral interference?

No, but if a new government (or even this one) decided to bring a halt to Brexit and Brexiteers played the "democratic referendum" card again, this is another justification for the new government to ignore it.

Each story like this, together with the passing of time reduces the relevance of the referendum to the political calculus. At the moment, the main Remain politicians are still running scared of the "democratic decision", but there will come a point when they realise it doesn't matter anymore.

[Rhiannon]

No, but if a new government (or even this one) decided to bring a halt to Brexit and Brexiteers played the "democratic referendum" card again, this is another justification for the new government to ignore it.

Each story like this, together with the passing of time reduces the relevance of the referendum to the political calculus. At the moment, the main Remain politicians are still running scared of the "democratic decision", but there will come a point when they realise it doesn't matter anymore.

I think that we are running out of time though. I agree, the whole thing now just seems so mad - with Gove's new comments too - but then most of the world seems mad right now.

That said, I seriously hope that you are right.

[jeremyp]

I think that we are running out of time though. I agree, the whole thing now just seems so mad - with Gove's new comments too - but then most of the world seems mad right now.

That said, I seriously hope that you are right.

I think I am right, but I agree that we are running out of time.

[Nearly Sane]

It would appear in last night's vote won by 3 votes, neither Vince Cable or Tim Farron voted because the Lib Dem whips didn't think it was going to be close. They had thought that Labour was going to abstain,

[Harrowby Hall]

It would appear in last night's vote won by 3 votes, neither Vince Cable or Tim Farron voted because the Lib Dem whips didn't think it was going to be close. They had thought that Labour was going to abstain,

I suppose one of the few good things that can be said for the anachronistic, highly visible, division voting system is that it is possible for an alert politician to see how much attention each division lobby is attracting and thus tailor one's own vote accordingly. Vince Cable and Tim Farron might be more alert in future.

[Nearly Sane]

I suppose one of the few good things that can be said for the anachronistic, highly visible, division voting system is that it is possible for an alert politician to see how much attention each division lobby is attracting and thus tailor one's own vote accordingly. Vince Cable and Tim Farron might be more alert in future.

Or they could just have voted against it anyway. The division lobby doesn't work here because they had left the building.

ETA - about a couple of hours before the vote, I'd posted on here that according to Twitter it looked as if Labour were not abstaining so I don't see how the Lib Dem whips weren't quite as switched on. In addition surely it's important to vote in favour of one of the few things that you have as a an attempt at a USP?

[Nearly Sane]

Brexit plan just pining for the fjords, says Fox


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44857687

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vote Leave Conservatives should be expelled from the party. And those labour party vote Leavers should be expelled from theirs.

[Nearly Sane]

Vote Leave Conservatives should be expelled from the party. And those labour party vote Leavers should be expelled from theirs.

Why? The manifesto they were elected on supported Leave

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why? The manifesto they were elected on supported Leave

But the organisation they subscribed to has been referred to the police for electoral malpractice. They have therefore failed the electoral commissions standards.

[Nearly Sane]

But the organisation they subscribed to has been referred to the police for electoral malpractice. They have therefore failed the electoral commissions standards.

That then applies to most MPs then since nearly all parties recently have been found guilty of various breaches. Since however, your suggestion isn't the law, it's specious.

[Nearly Sane]

But the organisation they subscribed to has been referred to the police for electoral malpractice. They have therefore failed the electoral commissions standards.

I think you would be more sensible to suggest that those on the board shouldn't be in the cabinet.

[Nearly Sane]

Let's see if this attempt to stay in customs Union past 2019 goes through - presumably a bring out your dead (and Farron and Cable) moment given last night's vote. And yet another reason why Sinn Fein's 'principle' is nonsense.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44857687

[Nearly Sane]

Mmm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/17/japan-eu-trade-deal-light-in-darkness-amid-trumps-protectionism?CMP=fb_gu

[wigginhall]

There seems to be confusion between the customs union, and a customs union.  Just watching TV news, and people are switching between them.  Important, because the union is in the EU, a union isn't.

Further confusion over no deal, hailed by some as paradise, by others as economic catastrophe.  How do we actually understand this?

[Nearly Sane]

As dead Mike Read, might have said, runaround now!

[wigginhall]

It also seems that soft Brexit has less support in the Commons than has been estimated.   I don't know whether this means that Rees-Mogg has the whip-hand or not.

[Nearly Sane]

Seen it suggested that the official names of votes for the vote Farron and Cable missed actually has 304 votes rather than 305. If so, and there was a miscount, then had they been there to vote against it would have been tied. So tradition would give the Speaker the casting votes, and tradition would have Speaker vote against the govt. So if that is the case the govt would (and I mean would not wouldn't) have lost

[Nearly Sane]

1 vote off govt for 30 days from 04 Sep

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-dup-mp-ian-paisley-12939955

[Rhiannon]

Seen it suggested that the official names of votes for the vote Farron and Cable missed actually has 304 votes rather than 305. If so, and there was a miscount, then had they been there to vote against it would have been tied. So tradition would give the Speaker the casting votes, and tradition would have Speaker vote against the govt. So if that is the case the govt would (and I mean would not wouldn't) have lost

I know. And the government had a vote that they shouldn't have used because they'd paired someone (can't remember who) with Jo Swinton, who is on maternity leave.

Ffs. I can't get my head around teh LibDems not turning up even if they did think it was a formality.

[Nearly Sane]

I know. And the government had a vote that they shouldn't have used because they'd paired someone (can't remember who) with Jo Swinton, who is on maternity leave.

Ffs. I can't get my head around teh LibDems not turning up even if they did think it was a formality.

It was Brandon Lewis who voted because of a 'mistake'. That vote was 307 vs 301, and Farron and Cable did vote. Note there was a plan to cover proxy votes for MPs on maternity/paternity leave but it seems to have been held up by the Leader of the House, Leadsom.

[Rhiannon]

Vince and Tim turned up?  That was good of them.

[wigginhall]

What about the Labour MPs voting with the govt?  I think they would have lost without them.

[Rhiannon]

What about the Labour MPs voting with the govt?  I think they would have lost without them.

Labour have been such a fucking shower on this.

[Nearly Sane]

Labour have been such a fucking shower on this.

They at least voted against as a party for once. Those that voted for are just the same as Tories who voted against.