Brexit - the next steps

[ippy]

So can you answer my concerns about the chain of supply for medicines. Because contrary to what others might think, I happen to believe that this issue is equally important and potentially devastating for both leave and remain voters.

Yes I could but there is no way it wouldn't end up as an unruly wrangle where we won't agree, we're on both sides sitting in our respective trenches with our tin hats on and have no way of resolving this difference we have by argument, I think the referendum had become the only way of resolving this gulf of a difference between the sides, I don't wish to take part in such an embittered, on both sides, discussion.

Yes I'm avoiding the subject but I'm mostly avoiding any of the embitterment in the process, largely I enjoy most exchanges on this forum and would like it to remain as it is.

This in or out of the EU is one of the most contentious disagreements I've ever come across in my life time.

Regards ippy

 

[Aruntraveller]

Any organisation not willing to sell the UK medicine and food, or punish the UK as a deterent to others, isn't an organisation worth being part of.

It's not that - it is having the mechanisms in place to trade leaving the supply chain uninterrupted. If we have a "hard Brexit" and end up with checks at Dover or wherever how does that affect time/heat sensitive medicines. Some emphasis has been placed on WTO rules but as I posted upthread on this previously, it is not a given that transferring to WTO rules is going to be that easy or allow us to trade on anything like the terms we currently do with the EU. This could force up the price of medicines to us from the EU whilst simultaneously not allow for a replacement due to delays in the implementation of WTO rules.

[Aruntraveller]

Yes I could but there is no way it wouldn't end up as an unruly wrangle where we won't agree, we're on both sides sitting in our respective trenches with our tin hats on and have no way of resolving this difference we have by argument, I think the referendum had become the only way of resolving this gulf of a difference between the sides, I don't wish to take part in such an embittered, on both sides, discussion.

Can I respectfully point out that this is purely a question about the practicalities of what would happen post Brexit - I am not talking about whether or not we are leaving. Now if you have an answer, which you imply above, can you share it with us?

This is not some hypothetical "taking back control" stuff. This is about medication which will affect all of us at some point in our lives. Now if you have an answer that can help put my mind at ease on this issue I would very much like to hear it.

[Rhiannon]

We're all entitled to our own individual view, remainers come over to me as very far from stupid but are very embittered losers it appears to me and are continuously hitting out at anything they can find no matter how erroneous.

I have to admit I would have felt much the same if the vote had gone the other way, but I don't think I would have gone as far down the, because of endless straw men, hysterical over-emotional posts route, the remainers seem to be going every day.

We, both sides think the other to be tragically wrong it must be worse for the losers, that's life.

Regards ippy

People are genuinely scared. Something about which you don't seem to give a shit.

[Rhiannon]

Both Remain and Leave in this thread seem to do the whole us and then approach. Shiny shiny mirrors all round.

It's very difficult to empathise with an 'I'm not telling you' position.

[wigginhall]

I thought that a lot of the arguments now are not about remain/leave, but the question of no deal.   I assume that if there is a deal, or a long transition, there won't be problems with food and medicine.  There is also the supposed Singapore-type economics of some no dealers, all a bit fuzzy, but clearly pretty right-wing..

[Dicky Underpants]

I thought that a lot of the arguments now are not about remain/leave, but the question of no deal.   I assume that if there is a deal, or a long transition, there won't be problems with food and medicine.  There is also the supposed Singapore-type economics of some no dealers, all a bit fuzzy, but clearly pretty right-wing..

Has anyone mentioned the problem with supplies of insulin? Could be an interesting headline:" Theresa May steps down as PM as she can no longer control her diabetes methodically."

[Nearly Sane]

It's very difficult to empathise with an 'I'm not telling you' position.

And I get the idea that you disagree with ippy about that but there is a generalisation on the thread about people that voted Brexit  that is not to do with ippy

[Nearly Sane]

People are genuinely scared. Something about which you don't seem to give a shit.

And if leave voters were genuinely scared? Did you give a shit?

[Rhiannon]

And if leave voters were genuinely scared? Did you give a shit?

Scared of what? Isn’t it about taking control back? I voted remain because I wanted to feed my kids.

[Nearly Sane]

Scared of what? Isn’t it about taking control back? I voted remain because I wanted to feed my kids.

So leave voters want to starve their children.

[Aruntraveller]

And if leave voters were genuinely scared? Did you give a shit?

I don't find that a convincing argument. Under the current but soon to be defunct set up, we know roughly what to expect. We are moving to a position where we do not know what is going to happen. Now maybe all will be fine (although that's not what my urine is telling me), but the point is there is much more uncertainty now than there was before. For that reason alone there is much more to be worried/scared about.

[Robbie]

C'mon NS you know Rhiannon didn't mean that. Many 'leave' voters were infused with patriotic-type propaganda and the idea that 'we' would be better off without the EU, they hadn't thought out the options and implications properly & let's face it, no-one was given that much information before the vote.

Plus what Trent said in post below.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't find that a convincing argument. Under the current but soon to be defunct set up, we know roughly what to expect. We are moving to a position where we do not know what is going to happen. Now maybe all will be fine (although that's not what my urine is telling me), but the point is there is much more uncertainty now than there was before. For that reason alone there is much more to be worried/scared about.

Didn't say it was convincing, was mirroring. So do you think Brexit  voters should think it works?

[Nearly Sane]

C'mon NS you know Rhiannon didn't mean that. Many 'leave' voters were infused with patriotic-type propaganda and the idea that 'we' would be better off without the EU, they hadn't thought out the options and implications properly & let's face it, no-one was given that much information before the vote.

Plus what Trent said in post below.

was wondering by about the portrayal of Leave voters? You agree with Rhiannon that they want to starve her kids?

[Aruntraveller]

Sorry don't get that last sentence 

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry don't get that last sentence 

Try it now

[Aruntraveller]

Try it now

Must be me - still not getting what you are getting at!

[ippy]

People are genuinely scared. Something about which you don't seem to give a shit.

I do care that's why I voted leave for reasons that I think are perfectly reasonable, obviously you want to remain probably probably because you think it's a perfectly reasonable stance to take.

I am sorry we don't agree but like I said before that's life.

We could argue this till doomsday we'll never agree and again like I said with an impasse like this EU one I think the referendum was the only way.

Regards ippy.

[Rhiannon]

I do care that's why I voted leave for reasons that I think are perfectly reasonable, obviously you want to remain probably probably because you think it's a perfectly reasonable stance to take.

I am sorry we don't agree but like I said before that's life.

We could argue this till doomsday we'll never agree and again like I said with an impasse like this EU one I think the referendum was the only way.

Regards ippy.

Ippy I don’t want to argue with you. I don’t think we even have argued. But I’m still none the wiser as to why you voted Leave apart from some vague thing about the ‘United States of Europe’, which doesn’t actually exist.

[Rhiannon]

was wondering by about the portrayal of Leave voters? You agree with Rhiannon that they want to starve her kids?

A distortion of what I said that is worthy of Vlad. Hats off for magnificent trolling there.

[Nearly Sane]

A distortion of what I said that is worthy of Vlad. Hats off for magnificent trolling there.

It was reductio to illustrate that your othering was just the same form of extreme.

[Rhiannon]

It was reductio to illustrate that your othering was just the same form of extreme.

My 'othering' as you call it, exists only in your head. I get why a lot of people voted Leave. My friend from a fishing town because he thought it'd protect jobs. Some older people I know because they are convinced the Euro is going to collapse. I have no idea about Ippy because he hasn't said. I've asked him to explain because I want to understand, not because I want conflict.

Just because some people like to 'other' those that they don't agree with, you shouldn't assume that all do. That smacks of prejudice on your part. Or smugness. Maybe both.

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry don't get that last sentence 

It comes from Rhiannon writing ' I voted remain because I wanted to feed my kids.' So the opposite by implication, i.e. Those who voted leave is that they wanted to starve their kids. It's just another example of othering by portraying one's own position as something as motherhood and apple pie as feeding your own children, and the others as being against that.

[Nearly Sane]

My 'othering' as you call it, exists only in your head. I get why a lot of people voted Leave. My friend from a fishing town because he thought it'd protect jobs. Some older people I know because they are convinced the Euro is going to collapse. I have no idea about Ippy because he hasn't said. I've asked him to explain because I want to understand, not because I want conflict.

Just because some people like to 'other' those that they don't agree with, you shouldn't assume that all do. That smacks of prejudice on your part. Or smugness. Maybe both.

Didn't assume. Working from the evidence of your post about wanting to feed your children. It implies people who disagree want to starve their children. That is exactly othering.