Brexit - the next steps

[ProfessorDavey]

So who were you worrying about when you misrepresented Rhiannin's post as being liable to be stoked up by racism?

I never said her comments were stoked up by racism, but could act as fuel to racists and xenophobes.

And when are you going to apologise for misrepresenting her post?

Nope - lets focus on your glaring misrepresentation of me, namely claiming that I think that people who 'might be racist inclined which are obviously those leave voters you want to dismiss'

When I haven't even mentioned the referendum, leave voters, remain voters etc (except for inferring that Rhi voted remain) in this whole section of the thread.

[Nearly Sane]

I never said her comments were stoked up by racism, but could act as fuel to racists and xenophobes.
Nope - lets focus on your glaring misrepresentation of me, namely claiming that I think that people who 'might be racist inclined which are obviously those leave voters you want to dismiss'

When I haven't even mentioned the referendum, leave voters, remain voters etc (except for inferring that Rhi voted remain) in this whole section of the thread.

Context really is not your strong point. We're talking about Brexit. and you had been posting about areas which voted against that. Had you managed to forget that?

I'm not sure why you think indulging in a spot of whataboutery absolves you in any way for your misrepresentation of Rhiannon.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think you are trying a rather desperate reading here which as I covered a number of posts ago makes no sense in context.

So where in the article did she say that her policeforce couldn't police Cambridgeshire effectively due to Eastern European migrants feuding. She didn't.

In fact in this, and other article, the key issue seems to be the need to spend money on interpreters - sure this is an issue and makes policing a touch more complex, but hardly equates to being unable to police Cambridgeshire effectively. And actually has nothing to do with Eastern European migrants feuding as this is as much about Eastern European migrants as victims or even just witnesses rather than as perpetrators of crime.

[ProfessorDavey]

Context really is not your strong point. We're talking about Brexit. and you had been posting about areas which voted against that. Had you managed to forget that?

I'm not sure why you think indulging in a spot of whataboutery absolves you in any way for your misrepresentation of Rhiannon.

Timing clearly not your strong point. This is all about comments from 2007 - you know 9 years before the referendum - there weren't leave voters and remain voters back then.

In this whole discussion about Rhiannon's comment's about Cambridgeshire I've not made a single comment indicating or even implying that leave voters are racists. Your misrepresentation stands for all too see.

[Nearly Sane]

Timing clearly not your strong point. This is all about comments from 2007 - you know 9 years before the referendum - there weren't leave voters and remain voters back then.

In this whole discussion about Rhiannon's comment's about Cambridgeshire I've not made a single comment indicating or even implying that leave voters are racists. Your misrepresentation stands for all too see.

And since your charge about possibly encouraging racism was applied to Rhiannon today your point is specious. And your whataboutery continued.  when are you going to apologise for your misrepresentation of Rhiannon?

[Nearly Sane]

So where in the article did she say that her policeforce couldn't police Cambridgeshire effectively due to Eastern European migrants feuding. She didn't.

In fact in this, and other article, the key issue seems to be the need to spend money on interpreters - sure this is an issue and makes policing a touch more complex, but hardly equates to being unable to police Cambridgeshire effectively. And actually has nothing to do with Eastern European migrants feuding as this is as much about Eastern European migrants as victims or even just witnesses rather than as perpetrators of crime.

She mentioned the feuds in the context of struggling to meet demand. Therefore it is relevant.

[ProfessorDavey]

She mentioned the feuds in the context of struggling to meet demand. Therefore it is relevant.

Demand for what? Remember this is against the background of a 20% reduction in crime in the county over the period when the big influx of migrants occurred.

There is a world of difference in saying that policing was more complex (which she did) and that it required additional interpreter costs (which she did) and say that she couldn't police Cambridgeshire effectively due to Eastern European migrants feuding, which she very, very clearly didn't. The implication of that comment being that the prevalence of feuding Eastern European migrants made Cambridgeshire a no-go area for policing, which is clearly ridiculous.

[Nearly Sane]

Ha!


http://newsthump.com/2018/08/06/liam-fox-to-replace-barry-chuckle-in-chuckle-brothers/

[Rhiannon]

Ha!


http://newsthump.com/2018/08/06/liam-fox-to-replace-barry-chuckle-in-chuckle-brothers/

Wasn't Liam Fox-Chuckle the equestrian bloke we were discussing yesterday on another thread?

[Nearly Sane]

Wasn't Liam Fox-Chuckle the equestrian bloke we were discussing yesterday on another thread?

I might watch if he was.

[Nearly Sane]

Never mind the quality, feel the number.

https://mobile.twitter.com/asabenn/status/1026745997572165634

[Rhiannon]

And in today's Brexit Is Shit...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

[ProfessorDavey]

And in today's Brexit Is Shit...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

And another

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45093322

[jeremyp]

And in today's Brexit Is Shit...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

And another

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45093322

Clearly we have some confirmation bias going on with all these anti-Brexit doom and gloom links. Perhaps somebody would like to post a story about something good that’s going to happen.

Is it still confirmation bias if the good stories about Brexit don’t exist?

[ProfessorDavey]

Clearly we have some confirmation bias going on with all these anti-Brexit doom and gloom links. Perhaps somebody would like to post a story about something good that’s going to happen.

Is it still confirmation bias if the good stories about Brexit don’t exist?

No, these are the good news stories. Just wait until you see the bad news stories about brexit - we don't last more than a month with food!

[wigginhall]

Sophie in 't Veld making interesting points about Brexit - Barnier's deputy.  She said the EU could not unpick the single market, and, nice irony, which the UK had helped create.  She also said the EU had waited two years for a UK proposal, which was unsuitable.  Available on iPlayer, interview with Stephen Sackur.  No, she's Verhofstadt's deputy.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Paltry numbers sign petition calling for a hard brexit

50 000 as reported in the Daily Express.

[wigginhall]

Mrs May has written to Tory members, saying that two EU proposals are unacceptable, including EEA.  She also recommended her standard deal, the 'common rulebook', which seems vastly unpopular with EU, as it unravels the single market..

Of course, there are rumours of deals being done later, maybe.   But Mrs May seems reluctant to accept that the UK will become a third country, which automatically takes us out of many regulations.   

Probably, most people are bored with all this, in any case.

[jeremyp]

Mrs May has written to Tory members, saying that two EU proposals are unacceptable, including EEA.  She also recommended her standard deal, the 'common rulebook', which seems vastly unpopular with EU, as it unravels the single market..

Of course, there are rumours of deals being done later, maybe.   But Mrs May seems reluctant to accept that the UK will become a third country, which automatically takes us out of many regulations.   

Probably, most people are bored with all this, in any case.

So many people seem to be in denial of the problems that No Deal Brexit will cause that maybe we have to go through with it to make them understand. Then, afterwards, we can apply to rejoin the EU and nobody will complain about how bad it is because we will have first hand knowledge of the alternative.

[Rhiannon]

So many people seem to be in denial of the problems that No Deal Brexit will cause that maybe we have to go through with it to make them understand. Then, afterwards, we can apply to rejoin the EU and nobody will complain about how bad it is because we will have first hand knowledge of the alternative.

Except we’d no longer be able to keep Sterling. The Euro is showing how precarious it can be today with the risk of contagion from economic collapse in Turkey. Selling the euro to the British public isn’t going to be easy - even the SNP prefer Sterling.

We don’t realise what a uniquely privileged position we have has as full EU members and yet retaining our own currency.

[jeremyp]

Except we’d no longer be able to keep Sterling.

Not in theory, but you don't give up your local currency the minute you join the EU. We could commit to joining the Euro at some unspecified date in the future and never actually do it. Plus, I think it would be quite hard for us to meet the qualification for joining the Euro at the moment.

We don’t realise what a uniquely privileged position we have has as full EU members and yet retaining our own currency.

It's not a unique position. Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania and Sweden do not use the Euro. Of those countries only Denmark has joined the European Exchange Rate Mechanism which is a legally required precursor to joining the Euro but is also voluntary. All of those countries except Denmark, which has a similar opt out to us, are technically required to join the Euro but none of them have started the process and there is no pressure being brought to bear to make them do it. In fact, Sweden had a referendum in which the Euro was rejected and it's fulfilling the referendum decision by deliberately not joining the ERM.

So if we leave the EU and then rejoin, although we are required to join the Euro, we are not required to join the ERM which is a qualification for the Euro, so we can stay out forever just like Sweden.

[Rhiannon]

Hmm.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/18/rethink-of-brexit-vote-may-be-necessary-ex-civil-service-head-warns-lord-kerslake

[wigginhall]

It all seems like guesswork to me.  Currently, there is a wide spectrum of views on no deal, ranging from those who see a blockage of transport routes to Europe, hence ports and airports would be closed, to those who say everything will be OK.   I don't know how you pick a position, but then the uncertainty might lead to a deal, or lots of mini-deals, e.g., on aviation, pharma, haulage, etc.   What a mad way to run a country though, a bit like playing in a casino.  If transport is blocked, how could the govt survive?

[Rhiannon]

I think that Brexit is a symptom of something having to give; too many people for too long that weren't listened to being exploited by the likes of Banks and Johnson for personal gain.

[wigginhall]

It's possible that some countries would suffer badly from no deal, e.g., Denmark, Ireland, Holland.   You would expect lots of pressure then to get a deal, but I'm not sure that normal political logic applies here.