Brexit - the next steps

[Harrowby Hall]

! think that Ireland - other factors not withstanding - is set to attract a considerable quantity of the City of London activity. It has the advantage of  having English as its native language.

The  non-UK part of the EU is sufficiently large, surely, for those countries which do have a lot of UK trade to be able to switch to other customers relatively easily in a single market.

[Aruntraveller]

I am turning into Victor Meldrew:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/20/mps-ask-for-expenses-budgets-to-be-raised-to-cover-brexit-costs?CMP=fb_gu

but with added expletives.

I don't fucking believe it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Surely the game must be up now Brexiters…..You aren't going to get your meds along with everyone else unless this ends.

[Nearly Sane]

I am ambivalent about a second vote but this is a ridiculous reason to oppose it.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/21/labour-mp-says-second-brexit-vote-could-lead-to-social-unrest?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Rhiannon]

I am ambivalent about a second vote but this is a ridiculous reason to oppose it.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/21/labour-mp-says-second-brexit-vote-could-lead-to-social-unrest?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

My feeling is that civil unrest is more likely with Brexit, not without it.

[Roses]

My feeling is that civil unrest is more likely with Brexit, not without it.

I think you might be right.

[Nearly Sane]

My feeling is that civil unrest is more likely with Brexit, not without it.

In and of itself, not a great reason not to have Brexit either. The better reasons are why that unrest might happen.  Brexit on Twitter mentions currently the 3rd biggest Labour split discussion after anti Semitism and jerk rice.

[Nearly Sane]

Dangerous man!


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jacob-reesmogg-brexit-inspected-irish-border-troubles-eu-no-deal-latest-a8508466.html

[Nearly Sane]

And another.


https://ansionnachfionn.com/2018/08/25/nigel-farages-ira-and-eu-conspiracy-theory-is-the-real-threat-to-peace/

[Nearly Sane]

May sets bar high for no deal Brexit



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/28/theresa-may-says-a-no-deal-brexit-wouldnt-be-the-end-of-the-world?CMP=share_btn_tw

[wigginhall]

I still can't get over the weirdness of no deal, that it doesn't mean no deal.  There would be lots of mini-deals, obviously.  If planes are going to fly, and racehorses moved around, there have to be agreements.  I suppose this involves much bureaucracy, ironically.

[Harrowby Hall]

I still can't get over the weirdness of no deal, that it doesn't mean no deal.  There would be lots of mini-deals, obviously.  If planes are going to fly, and racehorses moved around, there have to be agreements.  I suppose this involves much bureaucracy, ironically.

Does it matter? After all, we are going to have blue passports.

[Rhiannon]

Today's Brexit is Shit....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/04/marooned-ship-brexiteers-phoney-claims

[Aruntraveller]

Watched QT last night. I know shouldn't have, not good for blood pressure.

Anyway, the Rottweiler that is Julia Hartley Brewer was on proving once again that she is the singularly most irritating person in the UK.

At one point she asked the question "Name one concession that the EU has made during these negotiations." Then she went on to say they hadn't, and who would want to belong to a club that sought to punish us for leaving.

Obviously, she's never left a club before, but when I leave one I don't get the benefits of that club and they don't change the rules.

It really is rather simple Julia, we are leaving the EU, it does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to. The fact that it is entertaining a deal shows rather more good grace (even if it is based on self interest) on their part than we have done during this whole farce.

[wigginhall]

Yes, punishing us by letting us leave.

Lots of rumours going around that the Ultras have over-reached with their dotty proposals, and that the EU might accept a fudged deal, in order to get to the transition.   Kicking the can down the road?

[ProfessorDavey]

Watched QT last night. I know shouldn't have, not good for blood pressure.

Anyway, the Rottweiler that is Julia Hartley Brewer was on proving once again that she is the singularly most irritating person in the UK.

At one point she asked the question "Name one concession that the EU has made during these negotiations." Then she went on to say they hadn't, and who would want to belong to a club that sought to punish us for leaving.

Obviously, she's never left a club before, but when I leave one I don't get the benefits of that club and they don't change the rules.

It really is rather simple Julia, we are leaving the EU, it does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to. The fact that it is entertaining a deal shows rather more good grace (even if it is based on self interest) on their part than we have done during this whole farce.

Exactly my thoughts when watching the programme (and trying to avoid chucking something at the screen while she was pontificating).

The EU is a club, a club with rules that its members must adhere to. If one member decides to leave, why should the club change its rules. If I leave my local gym why on earth should I expect them to make 'concessions' to make it easier for me to leave. It is my choice to leave and ensuring I can leave in an orderly manner is entirely my responsibility.

[Sassy]

Sassy, the vote was not clear. 

In the first place, the Act which enabled the referendum stated that it was only advisory. It is possible (indeed, probable) that some voters may have voted in a particular way merely to send a political message. 

Secondly, the information provided for the electors was inadequate for the purpose - neither side presented cases which were adequate or sufficiently appropriate for a vote on a significant constitutional change. Apart from "intention" nobody had any real understanding of the consequences of the referendum nor of the policies and plans that would be needed to implement leaving nor of the consequences of such action.

Thirdly, 63% of the electorate did not support the proposal to leave the EU. The margin between those voting "leave" and those "stay" given the number of people not voting was too small to indicate a clear decision. The referendum is not a normal method of political decision making in the UK - this one was shambolic in its execution.

Fourthly. the primary purpose of the referendum was not to determine the UK's continued membership of the UK. It was being used by a weak prime minister solely for party management purposes.

The very first vote which took us into the common market was a secret ballot all sent to London to be counted. NO ONE has ever said they actually voted to go in. Whatever the arguments the vote to exit was to exit whatever number the greatest was exit.

The clear decision is there were more 'yes's' than 'No's'/  We cannot keep having a vote because some don't agree.

So to be clear the vote rules were complied with and they decide to exit the union. That is it, a full stop and the decision needs to be carried out. Sometimes you need a wider vision to see why we must exit.

[Sassy]

It was fairly clear here in Scotland.

Does Scotland make up the vote for the whole of the UK?  No it doesn't and democracy can't work if people won't accept the final vote.

[Sassy]

The sooner we are out the better for us.

[Harrowby Hall]

The very first vote which took us into the common market was a secret ballot all sent to London to be counted.

Wow! I didn't know that. And there was I thinking that we joined the Common Market following a general election called by Edward Heath in which such joining was a stated policy. I have no idea what mind bending substance I must have been on to have imagined something as bizarre as that! Was it co-ordinated by the same  people that produced the fake lunar landings?

Of course, Sass, it may have been you that was taking mind bending substances. Why else would you make up this tripe?

[ippy]

Exactly my thoughts when watching the programme (and trying to avoid chucking something at the screen while she was pontificating).

The EU is a club, a club with rules that its members must adhere to. If one member decides to leave, why should the club change its rules. If I leave my local gym why on earth should I expect them to make 'concessions' to make it easier for me to leave. It is my choice to leave and ensuring I can leave in an orderly manner is entirely my responsibility.

Yes Prof D it's exactly the same visa versa the only difference is practically the whole of the media are remainers and unbalanced in this area but I can console myself when I know we're on the way out of the EU.

Regards ippy

[ProfessorDavey]

... practically the whole of the media are remainers and unbalanced in this area ...

Nay evidence for that Ippy?

Broadcast media are required by law to be impartial.

The national newspapers were significantly tipped in favour of leave. Of the national print newspapers 8 supported leave and 6 supported remain. But even more significantly the 8 leave supporting newspapers included the top three in terms of circulation and the 6 remain supporting newspapers included the bottom 3 in terms of circulation.

So by a rough back of the fag packet calculation about 7.5M newspapers were in daily circulation supporting leave and just 3.2M newspapers supporting remain.

[ippy]

Nay evidence for that Ippy?

Broadcast media are required by law to be impartial.

The national newspapers were significantly tipped in favour of leave. Of the national print newspapers 8 supported leave and 6 supported remain. But even more significantly the 8 leave supporting newspapers included the top three in terms of circulation and the 6 remain supporting newspapers included the bottom 3 in terms of circulation.

So by a rough back of the fag packet calculation about 7.5M newspapers were in daily circulation supporting leave and just 3.2M newspapers supporting remain.

Yes, note the use of practically in the post of mine you're responding to.

Regards ippy

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes, note the use of practically in the post of mine you're responding to.

Regards ippy

Why is that relevant:

You said that '... practically the whole of the media are remainers and unbalanced in this area ...', which implies that:

1. A majority of media supported remain and
2. By using 'practically' that it isn't just a small majority but a very large majority that supported remain.

That is errant non-sense. As I have pointed out broadcast media were impartial and the print media were significantly tipped towards leave. Regardless of whether you include 'practically' in your quote, you are wrong.

[Anchorman]

Does Scotland make up the vote for the whole of the UK?  No it doesn't and democracy can't work if people won't accept the final vote.

The days of the Scottish tail being wagged by the Westminster dog are long gone, Sass.
There is seething resentmrnt here - and not just amongst  Nationalists - that, as the late Labour Frirst Minister said "The democratic will of the Scottiah people" is being steamrollered.
This will lead to asecond Indy ref once the burach of Brexit isworked out and we see just how terrible things will be in Scotland.
What you SHOULD worry about, though, is Northern Ireland.

It's all very well saying the majority of the so-called UK voted to leave - the majority in NI - both sides - voted to remain.
That Westminster ignores their wishes and creates a division that the albeit very fragile peace process healed between north and south, should worry you just as much as the problems finding medicines, paying more for your food, etc, will.