Brexit - the next steps

[Aruntraveller]

Whilst I'm sure your collective hand wringing makes you all feel better does anyone else have a view on what is going to happen next.

May gets a deal, puts it before parliament, it gets voted down, we leave with no deal?

Why should I have a view?

We were promised that a deal with the EU would be easy. We were promised £350 million for the NHS. We were promised that we would be better off outside the EU. We were promised control ovrr immigration (that may happen as no fucker in their right mind will want to come here the way things are heading)    Those that promised that and supported it should have some idea of how to achieve these objectives, surely?

I am quite clear, they were unachievable then and they are now. Thats my view.

[Nearly Sane]

Meanwhile we have Boris' bridge and May's Festival of Brexit.


https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNewEuropean/status/1046328598041440256

[SteveH]

Boris is fond of proposing completely useless engineering projects. His Thames Estuary airport was a non-starter, because all the seabirds would have flown stright into the jet engines; he backed the Thames garden bridge, a ridiculous vanity project; I seem to recall he wanted a Channel bridge, even though we've got a perfectly good tunnel; and now he wants a bridge to Ireland! What next - a lift into space (theoretically possible)?

[jakswan]

Unless there exists aeal which does not in any way, shape or form, affect the border between NI and the Republic, 'wringing of hands' will not be the first thing that comes to mind.
Wringing of blood soaked bandages will.
You can fire as many Tory trash drivel at the more hard line Republicans as you wish - it will not be stats, but emotions, which will govern them. Any border - be it real, cyber or whatever - will be seen as a barrier - They will not accept barriers.
I wish they would, but that is a pipe dream.
As yet, the bumbling idiots in this Westminster burach have not taken their middle class heads out of the sand long enough to realise it.

You sound like you'll be delighted with rivers of blood.

[jakswan]

Why should I have a view?

Where did I say you should? Don't reply if you you don't.

We were promised that a deal with the EU would be easy. We were promised £350 million for the NHS. We were promised that we would be better off outside the EU. We were promised control ovrr immigration (that may happen as no fucker in their right mind will want to come here the way things are heading)    Those that promised that and supported it should have some idea of how to achieve these objectives, surely?

Politicians make promise they can't keep, you support Corbyn brace for impact!

I am quite clear, they were unachievable then and they are now. Thats my view.

Jolly good.

[Aruntraveller]

you support Corbyn brace for impact!

I support Corbyn in as much as he is leader of the Labour party, but in the sense that I fully support him, no - you must have mixed me up with another poster. I would prefer a different leader, but speculation as to who that leader may be is pointless at the moment due to the prevailing winds.

Politicians make promise they can't keep

Yes unfortunately they do. Even more unfortunately some of the electorate believe them against their own best interests. Rees Mogg, Boris et al won't be the ones suffering as a result of a no-deal Brexit. The people of the North East as an example won't be quite so lucky.

[Aruntraveller]

You sound like you'll be delighted with rivers of blood.

Why do you so wilfully misrepresent people?

Anchorman makes it quite clear that he wished the people of NI would accept barriers, but recognised the reality that they won't.

[jakswan]

I support Corbyn in as much as he is leader of the Labour party, but in the sense that I fully support him, no - you must have mixed me up with another poster. I would prefer a different leader, but speculation as to who that leader may be is pointless at the moment due to the prevailing winds.
 

Yes unfortunately they do. Even more unfortunately some of the electorate believe them against their own best interests. Rees Mogg, Boris et al won't be the ones suffering as a result of a no-deal Brexit. The people of the North East as an example won't be quite so lucky.

OIC so you understand politicians make promises they can't keep but others less fortunate than you don't know that.

Labour, voted for a referendum, voted for article 50 and say they will vote for a no deal Brexit.

[jakswan]

Why do you so wilfully misrepresent people?

Anchorman makes it quite clear that he wished the people of NI would accept barriers, but recognised the reality that they won't.

Suggest you look up what misrepresent means. I think in a conversation about NI peace process introducing phrases like 'blood soaked bandages' you can come to a view on what the posters motive is.

[ProfessorDavey]

... and say they will vote for a no deal Brexit.

Really? When have Labour said they would vote for a no deal Brexit?

[Anchorman]

Suggest you look up what misrepresent means. I think in a conversation about NI peace process introducing phrases like 'blood soaked bandages' you can come to a view on what the posters motive is.

   


My motive in using that emotive language was to show the reality of the emotion-driven situation in parts of the province. As fas as I know, the 'main' ex-terrorist thugs on both sides who abandoned the mindless thirty years of hell known as 'the troubles' still try to keep a lid on the more radical members who are still unreconstructed terrorists.
The car bombs and other explosive-related incidents have not stopped - but by a combination of police vigilance, informants from the ex-terrorist groups themselves, and sheer luck, very few have exploded, and fewer still caused injury.
However, this situation will, sadly, change if any material change is made to the border.
I fully admit that Westminster does not want such a change - but the cvar-crash of the negotiations may well make it inevitable.
In that instance, the mindset of the 'usual suspects' on either side will kick in and the return to the 'troubles' will be a very strong probability.
I wish it were otherwise - those familiar with my posts  in another social medium will know my attitude to sectarianism; however, Brexit, in the NI context, may well mean blood.

[Aruntraveller]

Suggest you look up what misrepresent means. I think in a conversation about NI peace process introducing phrases like 'blood soaked bandages' you can come to a view on what the posters motive is.

Why? In what way did AM extrapolating what may likely happen in NI lead you to the conclusion that he would be delighted with "rivers of blood"?

It never occurred to me that he was even hinting that he would be delighted.

[Aruntraveller]

OIC so you understand politicians make promises they can't keep but others less fortunate than you don't know that.

Labour, voted for a referendum, voted for article 50 and say they will vote for a no deal Brexit.

I suggest you watch QT from last week, which was from the North East where one woman articulated exactly that position.

I know you are entrenched in your leave position but surely it is clear to you now that their is no good outcome from this decision. We will damage the economy, our prosperity, our progress and our futures. I hear people say we've just got to do it and make the best of it. Why? Why settle for making the best of it when there is another much better option available.

[jakswan]

I know you are entrenched in your leave position but surely it is clear to you now that their is no good outcome from this decision. We will damage the economy, our prosperity, our progress and our futures.

Not entrenched at all, I'd be quite happy with Norway type deal. It is possible that long term we can be better off outside of the EU, but lets not do that debate again it was two years ago.

I hear people say we've just got to do it and make the best of it. Why? Why settle for making the best of it when there is another much better option available.

I've heard people say we should do it in light of the referendum. The other option, remain I assume, can only come about by another vote.

At the last election one party had a commitment to another vote, Labour was for Brexit. Didn't you vote for Labour at the last election?

[Aruntraveller]

At the last election one party had a commitment to another vote, Labour was for Brexit. Didn't you vote for Labour at the last election?

Irrelevant, as I think another referendum would be inadvisable. In addition, I don't know about you, but I didn't vote on the basis of one issue.

[jakswan]

Irrelevant, as I think another referendum would be inadvisable. In addition, I don't know about you, but I didn't vote on the basis of one issue.

Another referendum is the only way to stop Brexit.

So you voted the way you did because other issues are more/as important than Brexit, noted.

[Aruntraveller]

So you voted the way you did because other issues are more/as important than Brexit, noted.

No. I would refer you to the first sentence of my previous post.

[jakswan]

No. I would refer you to the first sentence of my previous post.

Not following, you have made the following statements:-

1. 'Why settle for making the best of it when there is another much better option available.'

The only other viable option is another referendum with a remain option on the ballot, bearing in mind the stated positions of MP's.

2. '.....I think another referendum would be inadvisable...'

So by your own statements you can answer the question  'Why settle for making the best of it' with because 'another referendum would be inadvisable'.

[Nearly Sane]

Johnson takes lead out of Trump's book and suggests May could be prosecuted 'Lock her up!'


https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1047100671579906049

[Rhiannon]

Not following, you have made the following statements:-

1. 'Why settle for making the best of it when there is another much better option available.'

The only other viable option is another referendum with a remain option on the ballot, bearing in mind the stated positions of MP's.

2. '.....I think another referendum would be inadvisable...'

So by your own statements you can answer the question  'Why settle for making the best of it' with because 'another referendum would be inadvisable'.

No, Government or Parliament could decide its a total shit show and halt Brexit without a second referendum,

[jakswan]

No, Government or Parliament could decide its a total shit show and halt Brexit without a second referendum,

They could do almost anything 'vote to make me next leader of the UK', not likely though is it.

[Rhiannon]

They could do almost anything 'vote to make me next leader of the UK', not likely though is it.

Dunno. Depends how great the risk to UK security becomes if a no deal happens. They are there to act in the best interests of the country, not the individual or party.

Yeah, ok, you have a point...

[Aruntraveller]

Its simple. I dont think there will be another referendum. There is the option for Mrs May to do the right thing in her political life and say this is not possible without damaging the UK irreparably,  therefore we will stop the move to leave. Unlikely granted. I see no other option. As 5his is how I see it I voted largely on the basis of not accounting for the decision to leave. I cannot change the economic suicide taking place. I can, therefore only vote on which party I see as being the best for this country going forward regardless of that decision. I favoured the Labour party.  This is not though as you seem to want to paint it a whole hearted endorsement of JC. Its more a case of choosing the least worst option.

PS my main worry re another referendum is the very real threat of civil unrest on a large scale.

[Rhiannon]

PS my main worry re another referendum is the very real threat of civil unrest on a large scale.

The language used by the right, and the press especially, makes this entirely possible and I fear that those in political life and the media who oppose Brexit would be in genuine danger. However I also expect that with the job losses to come, possible economic collapse and certainly disruptions to food and medicines, we will see civil unrest anyway.

[Gordon]

It is such as mess now (was just watching the warnings from Vauxhall on the news) that it is hard to see how this can end well whatever happens - it has already caused friction that will won't subside quickly.

I'd hope it can be stopped one way or another.