Brexit - the next steps

[Spud]

I don't equate that guy Solomon with wisdom. Blimey a bloke with apparently 700 wives and 300 concubines, can't have much in the way of thought processes in the brain, as most them would be concentrated below his belt.

He backslid. There was a king though who laid down his life for his people. But still, 1 Kings 3 is an example of how to distinguish whether someone is being dishonest. Parliament needs to know how many voted for their own personal good, rather than that of the nation and Europe. I was probably one of them. But how do you make sure people don't just think of themselves when voting?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Solomon was wise enough to know how to call the false mother's bluff. Hopefully May will be wise enough to do something like this and do the right thing. But she seems intent on acting on the 2016 result without considering that people might want a chance to change their minds.

Many brexitters were pinning hope on Trump to offer a trade deal and derided Obama for talking about the "UK going to the back of the queue for a trade deal. No it seems we won't even be in the queue.

How do you feel now?

[jakswan]

That's just my lack of talent at writing. I'm pretty pessimistic because, if May gets her deal through, we will be headed for some sort of non hard Brexit, but still a Brexit and still pretty damaging IMO.

OK.

If she doesn't get her deal, the government might collapse and then we'll get our second referendum, which I think Remain will win, but we could also crash out with a No Deal Brexit which would be an utter disaster IMO.

Can't see Govt falling as Fixed Term Parliament Act, for another Referendum you would need Corbyn to have been supporting it 3 monthes ago. No deal very unlikely can't see a majority for that in Parliament.

It's going to be Corbyn after the next general election anyway.

Mmm, he is at 5.1 decimal odds to be next Prime Minister, the favourite but far from certain.

Do you really think that is is it some kind of Project Fear?

Sorry, couldn't resist the joke, but Corbyn is IMO thoroughly incompetent and will get nothing done. He couldn't bankrupt a Trump casino.

No not project fear, his spending commitments and taxes do not add up, he will have to attempt to fund all the things his bleeding heart tells him to.

I understand the left wing arguments they are coherent, lying about who is going to have to pay for them, very dangerous.

[jeremyp]

Many brexitters were pinning hope on Trump to offer a trade deal

How did they know he was going to win?

[jeremyp]

Can't see Govt falling as Fixed Term Parliament Act,

Theresa May has already shown that is worth fuck all. If the Tories can’t command a majority in the Commons, they wil be gone.

for another Referendum you would need Corbyn to have been supporting it 3 monthes ago. No deal very unlikely can't see a majority for that in Parliament.

I can see the Theresa May deal failing quite easily. I haven’t heard any MP say “yes it’s good”.  I’ve heard MPs say “it’s not Remain, therefore it is bad” and I’ve heard MPs say “it gives Europe too many powers, therefore it is bad”. The only thing holding it together is that a lot of Tory MPs are frightened that they will lose their jobs if it fails.

No not project fear, his spending commitments and taxes do not add up, he will have to attempt to fund all the things his bleeding heart tells him to.

I understand the left wing arguments they are coherent, lying about who is going to have to pay for them, very dangerous.

I agree with a lot of this, but Corbyn is incompetent. It really doesn’t matter what his aspirations are: he lacks the ability to put his ideas into effect.

[jakswan]

Theresa May has already shown that is worth fuck all. If the Tories can’t command a majority in the Commons, they wil be gone.
I can see the Theresa May deal failing quite easily. I haven’t heard any MP say “yes it’s good”.  I’ve heard MPs say “it’s not Remain, therefore it is bad” and I’ve heard MPs say “it gives Europe too many powers, therefore it is bad”. The only thing holding it together is that a lot of Tory MPs are frightened that they will lose their jobs if it fails.
I agree with a lot of this, but Corbyn is incompetent. It really doesn’t matter what his aspirations are: he lacks the ability to put his ideas into effect.

Fixed term parliament act was only overcome before as everyone was up for it.

I'm guessing May's deal will get voted down once, might have some small concession from EU and maybe it will pass then, if not it will be Norway.

Corbyn will be PM he will spend epic amounts of cash, and for Brexit.

[BeRational]

Can we have the Norway deal?

I did not think that was an option.

[jeremyp]

Fixed term parliament act was only overcome before as everyone was up for it.

And what makes you think they won’t be up for it this time?

[ProfessorDavey]

if not it will be Norway.

Norway isn't on offer, and cannot be on offer unless the EU27 agree. Norway doesn't work if freedom of movement is to be ended. But frankly nothing does unless the UK is prepared for a border either between NI and RoI, or NI and GB.

[SteveH]

You sound hopeful, there is every chance we could get Corbyn, will make Brexit insignificant as he will bankrupt the country.

Rubbish - Corbyn isn't an idiot. You've bought the tory propaganda. How would he bankrupt the country?

[Roses]

Corbyn seems rather pathetic, and appears to be prepared to go along with this Brexit debacle.

[SteveH]

Why do you think he's pathetic?

[Roses]

Why do you think he's pathetic?

Corbyn just doesn't seem to be able to stand his ground unlike previous leaders of his party. I think  David Milliband would have made a good one.

[Rhiannon]

Rubbish - Corbyn isn't an idiot. You've bought the tory propaganda. How would he bankrupt the country?

Well we don't have a magic money tree. The only way he could fulfil his obligations to (for example) renationalise everything would be to devalue sterling by printing money - PQE I believe it is called. That will tank the economy.

[Aruntraveller]

Corbyn just doesn't seem to be able to stand his ground unlike previous leaders of his party. I think  David Milliband would have made a good one.

I don't understand what you are talking about. Throughout his political career he has been perfectly clear on what he stands for and has stuck to his own views on these issues. The very definition of standing your ground. You may disagree with some or all of his policies, but the accusation you level at him here is false.

[Rhiannon]

I don't understand what you are talking about. Throughout his political career he has been perfectly clear on what he stands for and has stuck to his own views on these issues. The very definition of standing your ground. You may disagree with some or all of his policies, but the accusation you level at him here is false.

I disagree. I used to think this of him but he is a Leave believer through and through who campaigned halfheartedly for Remain. It does make him look weak.

[Roses]

I disagree. I used to think this of him but he is a Leave believer through and through who campaigned halfheartedly for Remain. It does make him look weak.

Corbyn looks very weak. If he believes in remaining in the EU he should be campaigning vigorously for another referendum, which he isn't doing.

[SteveH]

Well we don't have a magic money tree. The only way he could fulfil his obligations to (for example) renationalise everything would be to devalue sterling by printing money - PQE I believe it is called. That will tank the economy.

Oh perlease! Not the magic money tree crap! Governments have as much money as they choose to raise via taxation - and, as a standard-rate taxpayer, I'm happy for my tax to be raised within reason, if it's going to pay for more and better hospitals, doctors, nurses, schools, teachers, infrastructure, etc. Re-nationalising the railways needn't cost a penny, if the government takes each bit back into public ownership as franchises come up for renewal.

[SteveH]

Corbyn looks very weak. If he believes in remaining in the EU he should be campaigning vigorously for another referendum, which he isn't doing.

He's a long-standing outer, as anyone who's taken the slightest interest in politics over the last few decades knows.

[jeremyp]

If he believes in remaining in the EU

As Rhiannon pointed out, he doesn't. He's a Leaver in charge of a party that was mostly pro-remain prior to the referendum. However, rather than stamp his own authority on the party, he deferred to the majority opinion and that's why he was never really at the races prior to the referendum and why his opposition to the government's handling of Brexit has been half hearted at best.

he should be campaigning vigorously for another referendum, which he isn't doing.

Like many Brexiteers, he opposes a new referendum because it might reverse the result.

[jeremyp]

Oh perlease! Not the magic money tree crap! Governments have as much money as they choose to raise via taxation

Tax revenue is not a magic money tree either. Increasing taxation puts a burden on the economy, which, if excessive, will cause a recession.

 

and, as a standard-rate taxpayer, I'm happy for my tax to be raised within reason, if it's going to pay for more and better hospitals, doctors, nurses, schools, teachers, infrastructure, etc.

As a tax payer, so would I, but you have to recognise that even if everybody is willing, it still will have a dampening effect on the economy.

Re-nationalising the railways needn't cost a penny, if the government takes each bit back into public ownership as franchises come up for renewal.

It will not cost anything to take the franchises back into public ownership, but the government then has to actually run the railways which is not something it has ever demonstrated any aptitude for in the past. It will probably end up costing more for a generally inferior service.

[Roses]

I am surprised Corbyn is a 'leaver' some of his comments have given me the impression he would have preferred the UK to remain in the EU. However that guy is so lily livered it is not easy to take on board what he really thinks.

[SteveH]

I am surprised Corbyn is a 'leaver' some of his comments have given me the impression he would have preferred the UK to remain in the EU. However that guy is so lily livered it is not easy to take on board what he really thinks.

You haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about, as usual. Before becoming leader, JC spent decades defying the party whip at every turn. Whatever else he may be, he's not lily-livered.

[Roses]

You haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about, as usual. Before becoming leader, JC spent decades defying the party whip at every turn. Whatever else he may be, he's not lily-livered.

And do you know what you are talking about, as most of you posts don't come over as if you do?

As for Corbyn he does come over as lily-livered, May usually gets the better of him. I reckon he would be replaced as leader if there was anyone else who would do any better. At present that party seems to have lost its way, not that the Tories are doing much better. British politics appear to be in more of a mess than they have been in for a very long time, imo.     

[Aruntraveller]

As for Corbyn he does come over as lily-livered, May usually gets the better of him.

You really are living in an alternative universe.