Brexit - the next steps

[Anchorman]

If you like... but then, I still haven't worked out why you wanna be in the EU but not the UK. Unless you like Unions but not Kingdoms? Or would you be cool with the UK if England had agreed to stay in the EU?

That's upto Rngland. Scvotland, likr Northern Ireland, vote d tyo remain. Why should we be ignored in favour of a nation which is not oyurs? As for kingdoms? I have no problem with whom we elect as ourt head of state. If Anne Mountbatten-Windsor stood for election, I'd vote for her. But I will not acknmowledge a 'kingdom' bercause some woman wears a golden hat because her mum and dad had sex in the right bed.

[Spud]

That's upto Rngland. Scvotland, likr Northern Ireland, vote d tyo remain.

Wales and England voted to Leave, though, so it was a 2 all draw.

Why should we be ignored in favour of a nation which is not oyurs? As for kingdoms? I have no problem with whom we elect as ourt head of state. If Anne Mountbatten-Windsor stood for election, I'd vote for her. But I will not acknmowledge a 'kingdom' bercause some woman wears a golden hat because her mum and dad had sex in the right bed.

Eh? Huh? K? Er... I also have a problem with the monarchy as they all seem to spend so much money on everything; but the fact that all four nations are represented in parliament seems fair, doesn't it?

[SusanDoris]

As I have mentioned before, I stay away from most politics here - I cannot stand the way there are so many 'let's-drag-'em-all-down attitude, ditto when the subject of the monarchy comes up, however, I am dropping in to say that I am very pleased to hear that my MP voted in support of the deal and the PM and that anyone who runs down Theresa May could not fault her firm, clear, and calm attitude last night

[wigginhall]

Well, yes, the captain of the Titanic spoke with a firm clear voice, as he advised, abandon ship.

[Nearly Sane]

Marina Hyde's take on the debacle of last yesterday

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/westminster-apocalypse-may-tories-opportunity

[Nearly Sane]

As I have mentioned before, I stay away from most politics here - I cannot stand the way there are so many 'let's-drag-'em-all-down attitude, ditto when the subject of the monarchy comes up, however, I am dropping in to say that I am very pleased to hear that my MP voted in support of the deal and the PM and that anyone who runs down Theresa May could not fault her firm, clear, and calm attitude last night

Except it wasn't clear in that it offered cross party talks - just not with any other parties. And your idea that people who oppose her are just 'let's-drag-'em-all-down' is poisoning the well.

[SusanDoris]

Except it wasn't clear in that it offered cross party talks - just not with any other parties. And your idea that people who oppose her are just 'let's-drag-'em-all-down' is poisoning the well.

Just to clarify! The 'drag-'em-all-downs to whom I refer are the posters here and on other forums who  fail to offere a valid alternative to whatever it is they want to drag down. Ah, wel!

[Gordon]

As I have mentioned before, I stay away from most politics here - I cannot stand the way there are so many 'let's-drag-'em-all-down attitude, ditto when the subject of the monarchy comes up, however, I am dropping in to say that I am very pleased to hear that my MP voted in support of the deal and the PM and that anyone who runs down Theresa May could not fault her firm, clear, and calm attitude last night

Aside from that she is incompetent, totally lacking in leadership skills, intransigent and a liar to boot.

[Nearly Sane]

Just to clarify! The 'drag-'em-all-downs to whom I refer are the posters here and on other forums who  fail to offere a valid alternative to whatever it is they want to drag down. Ah, wel!

Which posters on here haven't offered an alternative to either May or monarchy when they have criticised either?

[SusanDoris]

Which posters on here haven't offered an alternative to either May or monarchy when they have criticised either?

I do not carry a mental list, nor can I go back and find them, so I'll say no more on that.

A friend has just phoned. She watches more of world news and tells me that newspaper headlines worldwide, not just in the EU, have been expressing shock horror that the British Parliament could get into such a confused state of affairs - or whatever words they used. Apparently, it no longer seems to set a good example.

I'm to old to worry about all that and there's nothing I can do, but it most certainly does not make me happy.

[jeremyp]

Well, yes, the captain of the Titanic spoke with a firm clear voice, as he advised, abandon ship.

In the circumstances, that was the best advice.

[jeremyp]

Which posters on here haven't offered an alternative to either May or monarchy when they have criticised either?

Who would be a good alternative to Theresa May?

[Nearly Sane]

Who would be a good alternative to Theresa May?

As Prime Minister, as Leader of the Tories, as  the person in the current position as both?


If you could chose the govt, and leader, would your choice be the Tories and May?

[jeremyp]

As Prime Minister, as Leader of the Tories, as  the person in the current position as both?


If you could chose the govt, and leader, would your choice be the Tories and May?

The prime minister and the leader of the Tories are the same person and, since they defeated the no confidence motion, that will remain the case for the foreseeable future (i.e. until tomorrow at least).

[jeremyp]

As Prime Minister, as Leader of the Tories, as  the person in the current position as both?


If you could chose the govt, and leader, would your choice be the Tories and May?

Oh, and in answer to your original question, I am a poster here who hasn’t offered an alternative to either May or the monarchy. In the latter case, because I don’t think we need one and in the former case, because I can’t think of one with a realistic chance of being PM.

[Nearly Sane]

The prime minister and the leader of the Tories are the same person and, since they defeated the no confidence motion, that will remain the case for the foreseeable future (i.e. until tomorrow at least).

Yes, I know they are but some see the alternative to May as a different govt. And in terms of practicalities, they aren't in general a restriction to what people see as an alternative. That was the point of the question.

[Nearly Sane]

Oh, and in answer to your original question, I am a poster here who hasn’t offered an alternative to either May or the monarchy. In the latter case, because I don’t think we need one and in the former case, because I can’t think of one with a realistic chance of being PM.

Not needing an alternative is an alternative choice. Realism isn't a restriction to suggesting what would be better.
E.g. Steve would suggest Corbyn as an alternative PM.

[jeremyp]

Not needing an alternative is an alternative choice. Realism isn't a restriction to suggesting what would be better.
E.g. Steve would suggest Corbyn as an alternative PM.

I’m not saying we don’t need an alternative PM. It’s just I don’t see one that is better than May on Brexit but also likely to get in power.

[Nearly Sane]

I’m not saying we don’t need an alternative PM. It’s just I don’t see one that is better than May on Brexit but also likely to get in power.

Again see comment about Steve's preference.

[Nearly Sane]

Not seeing that Corbyn's position at the moment is going to play well.

[Roses]

Corbyn would be even more of a disaster than May, he hasn't nailed his colours to the mast about Brexit, so we don't really know which way he would swing.

[Aruntraveller]

Not seeing that Corbyn's position at the moment is going to play well.

Yes, not understanding that either. He could go into No 10 for talks and say privately take No deal off as an option, and then work on whatever agreement can be cobbled together. Although I still don't think the essential balance of numbers applying to the situation has changed so I haven't the foggiest idea what they could come up with. But at least Corbyn wouldn't look as if he was just obstructing for the sake of it.

[jeremyp]

Again see comment about Steve's preference.

I thought it was fairly obvious that I do not think Corbyn is a viable alternative. Corbyn is pro-Brexit but a lot of his MPs are closet Remainers. Also, Corbyn is utterly useless.

[Udayana]

Clearly there is no point in any discussions if May is going to trump any changes with a "no deal exit" card, but Corbyn has no grasp of how to win people over.
 

[jeremyp]

I now think May has three immediate options:

1. Let the No Deal happen

2. Withdraw Article 50

3. Ask the EU for an extension to Article 50.

I think it is totally unrealistic for her to carry on with the negotiated deal considering that Labour isn refusing to even talk to her unless she rules out option 1 and without Labour, she is not going to get her deal through Parliament.

Option 3 requires the cooperation of the EU. Option 2 makes it very difficult to restart negotiations in good faith later and probably ends May's career and destroys the Conservative Party. At this point, given the intransigence of various people who are unable to put the country before party politics and personal ambition, we are heading towards a No Deal Brexit.Start stockpiling people..