Brexit - the next steps

[Nearly Sane]

On the subject of the racist incompetent lying PM saying she is about to resign soon (just like she said she wasn't going to call a GE), what then means that you as an MP would vote for a deal you wouldn't before? If some form of MV3 does get through, and I don't know why Bercow  gets such shite  for putting a precedent here, then those changing their mind, including the dangerous slug, Johnson are in some cases voting to get a chance to be PM. One of the many things that May is responsible for is allowing Johnson to be in the tent pissing in, and pissing on Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe's chances of being released by keeping him to save the Tory party. A disgrace leading a band of disgraced chancers.

[Anchorman]

After the pure trash of the last few months, no-one with any sense could ever look up to that shambolic farce in Westminster again with anything other than total disdain for a pseudodemocratic anachronism.

[Nearly Sane]

While I am by some distance not a fan of WM, not sure it is just its anachronistic qualities that are at issue. I see this as far more about having a lying incompetent racist trying to save a party above country, and that party dealing with its own divisions above country.

[Roses]

The whole Brexit business is a terrible mess and getting worse with each day that passes. People slag off May, but I very much doubt Corbyn would do any better if he was PM.

[Nearly Sane]

The whole Brexit business is a terrible mess and getting worse with each day that passes. People slag off May, but I very much doubt Corbyn would do any better if he was PM.

Which is only relevant if they are saying he would do better than the incompetent lying racist pro tem PM

[Anchorman]

While I am by some distance not a fan of WM, not sure it is just its anachronistic qualities that are at issue. I see this as far more about having a lying incompetent racist trying to save a party above country, and that party dealing with its own divisions above country.

     






I completely share your sentimentsabout the leader mycountry happily rejected, NS; but she, like her bumbling oaf opposite - Corbyn -aee products of the shambolic farce of Westmibster, steeped in the insane unwritten code of conduct which administers it, andwilling to be part of the unwritten rigmarole that passes for a constitution which enshrines it.

[SusanDoris]

The whole Brexit business is a terrible mess and getting worse with each day that passes. People slag off May, but I very much doubt Corbyn would do any better if he was PM.

Exactly - and those who do  that constant dragging down of Theresa May do not have a valid candidate who would take over, sort out the Irish border problem, maintain a level-headed attitude, etc as far as I can see. I suppose they would then find out, surprise, surprise!!, that the next person would make some mistakes too. I do wonder how much misogyny is a part of the dislike of her.

[Anchorman]

Exactly - and those who do  that constant dragging down of Theresa May do not have a valid candidate who would take over, sort out the Irish border problem, maintain a level-headed attitude, etc as far as I can see. I suppose they would then find out, surprise, surprise!!, that the next person would make some mistakes too. I do wonder how much misogyny is a part of the dislike of her.

           




No, Susan. I don't dislike her because she's a woman.
I despise her because she heads a government which has made the lives of many disabled, sick, poor and vulnerable people unbearable.
I dislike her because of her clinging on to a 'precious union' which only she and her partners in bribery from the medieval period in NI value.
And I cordially detest her for failing tolisten to the parliament my country elected. (I did say 'parliament', not 'party'or indeed 'government')

[Roses]

           




No, Susan. I don't dislike her because she's a woman.
I despise her because she heads a government which has made the lives of many disabled, sick, poor and vulnerable people unbearable.
I dislike her because of her clinging on to a 'precious union' which only she and her partners in bribery from the medieval period in NI value.
And I cordially detest her for failing tolisten to the parliament my country elected. (I did say 'parliament', not 'party'or indeed 'government')

Has the Labour party done any better? The Tories are far from perfect, but that goes for Labour too, especially until Corbyn.

[wigginhall]

She probably competes for being the worst PM ever, although Eden runs close.   She lies consistently, she is a racist, and she didn't want Parliament involved in Brexit.   And her ability to reach out to people is zero.

[Udayana]

Ones opinions on the attributes or flaws of the two leaders notwithstanding, the fact is that they were each elected into their positions at difficult times and, not having been able to demonstrate convincing leadership, remain weak - which, imv, accounts for their inflexibility and inability to negotiate.

From the, pretty much expected, inconclusive results of the indicative votes it seems clear that if we are to leave with the deal rather than no-deal, Labour will have to vote for it. May should be (or have been) negotiating with Corbyn not her no-eyelids right wing.

Maybe she can still do this, one step removed, by putting Ken Clarke or Hammond in charge of organising such a deal.       

[jeremyp]

While I am by some distance not a fan of WM, not sure it is just its anachronistic qualities that are at issue. I see this as far more about having a lying incompetent racist trying to save a party above country, and that party dealing with its own divisions above country.

That could apply to either main party leader.

[jeremyp]

Here's an interesting video in which James O'Brian interviews an ex Brexiteer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGwz-u5otzk

The part from 9 minutes on in which they talk about why moderate Brexiteers don't seem to get any exposure in the media is particularly interesting, in my view.

[Aruntraveller]

Exactly - and those who do  that constant dragging down of Theresa May do not have a valid candidate who would take over, sort out the Irish border problem, maintain a level-headed attitude, etc as far as I can see. I suppose they would then find out, surprise, surprise!!, that the next person would make some mistakes too. I do wonder how much misogyny is a part of the dislike of her.

No misogyny needed. She is incompetent. Thatcher, hoever much I despised her, and I did, was not incompetent. But much, much worse than her incompetence are the issues that NS has been highlighting so well. It is almost like somepeople are willing to turn a blind eye to Grenfell and Windrush and "HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT"..

In light of the accusation of misogyny on the part of May's detractors, can I lob a wholly unsubstantiated one of racism back to her supporters, because you really must be exceptionally dim if you can't  see the racism implicit in her actions.

[Udayana]

Dan Hodges earlier

Passing the WA would fulfill two objectives that both sides of the debate claim to desperately want. We would legally leave the EU. And we would remove the threat of a No Deal Brexit. It represents a sensible compromise. And as a result, MPs will obviously reject it.

Wish I hadn't suggested it now

Clearly putting the WA alone to a vote is brain dead unless guarantees are made on the participation and process to be used in the phase 2 negotiations. Labour will have no bargaining power or influence if they back the WA only without a deal on the PD implementation.
 
 

[Nearly Sane]

Exactly - and those who do  that constant dragging down of Theresa May do not have a valid candidate who would take over, sort out the Irish border problem, maintain a level-headed attitude, etc as far as I can see. I suppose they would then find out, surprise, surprise!!, that the next person would make some mistakes too. I do wonder how much misogyny is a part of the dislike of her.

Last time I looked it isn't within my remit to choose the leader of the Tory party. Were I to have the power I wouldn't chose a lying incompetent racist who in putting saving her party above doing what's best for the country insisted on the red lines which created the backstop issue.

And no I am not being misogynist here, and unless you want to actually evidence that instead of throwing out an unfounded accusation, then it would seem sensible to withdraw it.

[Gordon]

Good review of the Brexit history: the current crop of fuckwit Tories are shown to be a bunch of hapless amateurs (though we already knew that).

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-uk-lost-brexit-eu-negotiation/

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Exactly - and those who do  that constant dragging down of Theresa May do not have a valid candidate who would take over, sort out the Irish border problem, maintain a level-headed attitude, etc as far as I can see. I suppose they would then find out, surprise, surprise!!, that the next person would make some mistakes too. I do wonder how much misogyny is a part of the dislike of her.

I do wonder how much misogyny plays a part in Susan's defence of Theresa May. When people are highly critical of the performance or values displayed by male politicians, like those of that oaf Boris Johnson, Susan does not "wonder" about misandry. Maybe Susan thinks women are by nature inferior and should be given special protection from the criticism that men routinely face in their jobs? 

[SusanDoris]

I can see I should have maihntained my usual stance of staying well out of the political discussions.

However, today I am far more delighted about the following: I have just come home from day surgery (had to wait 2.1/2 hours for transport home otherwise I'd have been home earlier) having left here at 3:0 p.m.  During that time I have had a lumpectomy under a local anaesthetic and feel absolutely fine and well - now that is absolutely amazing and fantastic, thanks to the NHS.

[Nearly Sane]

Dagenham! Utterly Dagenham!

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/102858/new-royal-yacht-britannia-would-‘unite’-country-after

[Nearly Sane]

Not even close. What happens now who knows?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47752017

[jeremyp]

 And..........

..... we're back where we started

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47752017

MPs reject the May deal again.

So I think we really are down to two choices:

No Deal

Withdraw article 50.

[Roses]

What a mess, STUFF BREXIT, we need to stay in the EU.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Call me a cock-eyed optimist but maybe just maybe after trying every possible permutation and failed enough MPs will finally do the right thing and put it to the country in another referendum, only this time with the checks and balances in place to avoid the utter corruption of the prior one. I'd have thought a commitment to another referendum would be good enough for the EU to agree the necessary extension.     

[jeremyp]

Call me a cock-eyed optimist but maybe just maybe after trying every possible permutation and failed enough MPs will finally do the right thing and put it to the country in another referendum, only this time with the checks and balances in place to avoid the utter corruption of the prior one. I'd have thought a commitment to another referendum would be good enough for the EU to agree the necessary extension.     

Stuff it. I say withdraw article 50.