Brexit - the next steps

[Udayana]

Clearly Javid is being set up as a patsy.

[Nearly Sane]

Michael Gove on Andrew Marr unable to commit govt to obeying the law.

[SteveH]

This 'ere prorogation malarkey: the Brexiters keep saying that it's only for three or four extra days on top of the normal parliamentary recess, so not worth worrying about, but the prorogation covers the whole of the recess as well, up to mid-October, AND prorogation and recess are not the same thing: prorogation is considerably more of a shut-down than a recess. During recess, scrutiny, select committees, and some other things continue; under a prorogation, they don't. It is thus rather more serious than a few extra days.

How is prorogation different from adjournment, recess and dissolution?
Prorogation signals the end of the parliamentary session and brings to an end nearly all parliamentary business – including most bills and all motions and parliamentary questions – to a close. Parliament reconvenes when a new session starts – marked by a Queen’s Speech, which outlines a new programme of legislation.

Adjournments are routine breaks in parliamentary activity. Parliament usually adjourns every night and over weekends. They do not affect the usual business of Parliament.

Recesses are breaks during the year when a House of Parliament does not meet. These are are technically a form of adjournment. In the Commons, MPs must vote to approve recess dates. While MPs and peers will not meet in the main chambers during recesses, other parliamentary business, such as select committee work and parliamentary questions, continue.
 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/proroguing-parliament

[Gordon]

We need rid of these Tory fuckers running the Home Office.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/sep/01/home-office-planning-to-end-family-reunion-for-children-after-brexit

[jeremyp]

I'd really like the Brexiteers on this forum to read this story:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-immigration-insight/where-do-i-go-eu-citizens-face-legal-limbo-after-decades-in-britain-idUKKCN1VK0CV

Do any ofd the benefits they think they are going to get justify wrecking this woman's life?

[Nearly Sane]

I'd really like the Brexiteers on this forum to read this story:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-immigration-insight/where-do-i-go-eu-citizens-face-legal-limbo-after-decades-in-britain-idUKKCN1VK0CV

Do any ofd the benefits they think they are going to get justify wrecking this woman's life?

Must do, surely else why vote for wrecking her life.

[ad_orientem]

I'd really like the Brexiteers on this forum to read this story:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-immigration-insight/where-do-i-go-eu-citizens-face-legal-limbo-after-decades-in-britain-idUKKCN1VK0CV

Do any ofd the benefits they think they are going to get justify wrecking this woman's life?

I'm sure you'll find most people who voted leave will have sympathy for her. I didn't vote because I don't live in England anymore but my main opposition to the EU has always been is centralisation. I had no prolem with a trade union. Political union went too far though and I think that is most people's gripe with thd EU. It takes decision making further away from the people.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm sure you'll find most people who voted leave will have sympathy for her. I didn't vote because I don't live in England anymore but my main opposition to the EU has always been is centralisation. I had no prolem with a trade union. Political union went too far though and I think that is most people's gripe with thd EU. It takes decision making further away from the people.

and yet the choice you would have made lead to it
 So it's your choice for it to happen.

[SteveH]

Must do, surely else why vote for wrecking her life.

They didn't vote specificsally to wreck the life of someone they'd never heard of.

[Aruntraveller]

They didn't vote specificsally to wreck the life of someone they'd never heard of.

True, but the result of their actions means that someone they've never heard of has had their life wrecked.

[Nearly Sane]

They didn't vote specificsally to wreck the life of someone they'd never heard of.

And yet that is the result of their vote.

[Gordon]

Looks like the situation in the Tory party is becoming more heated - hard to work out what is likely to happen in the next 48 hours, except that it will be increasingly chaotic. Should be fun!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/01/boris-johnson-brexit-sacrifice-majority-by-withdrawing-whip-from-rebel-mps

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49543430

[Nearly Sane]

It's odd that in these days of 24 hour news, and the obviously febrile atmosphere in Westminster, it still somehow seems like a very slow car crash that has been happening for 3 years. Even though we are close to hitting the wall, the pace still seems deathly.

[wigginhall]

It's odd that in these days of 24 hour news, and the obviously febrile atmosphere in Westminster, it still somehow seems like a very slow car crash that has been happening for 3 years. Even though we are close to hitting the wall, the pace still seems deathly.

I thought that everyone is actually afraid of a denouement.  I mean that assuming we leave the EU on 31 October, no doubt the Brexiters will celebrate, but many people will have a feeling of dread.  It's like an unconscious delaying of Brexit, as nobody really knows what will happen.  Maybe there will be a land flowing with milk and honey, but maybe medicines and food will be restricted, there will be an Irish catastrophe, and so on.  Do you feel lucky?

[Nearly Sane]

I thought that everyone is actually afraid of a denouement.  I mean that assuming we leave the EU on 31 October, no doubt the Brexiters will celebrate, but many people will have a feeling of dread.  It's like an unconscious delaying of Brexit, as nobody really knows what will happen.  Maybe there will be a land flowing with milk and honey, but maybe medicines and food will be restricted, there will be an Irish catastrophe, and so on.  Do you feel lucky?

I saw elsewhere it described as the plot of Lord of the Flies ' An island run by British schoolboys who turn on each other, run short of food, kill the vulnerable, and have to be rescued' - I just wonder if the conch has been prorogued.

[Stranger]

Looks like the situation in the Tory party is becoming more heated - hard to work out what is likely to happen in the next 48 hours, except that it will be increasingly chaotic. Should be fun!

Not sure about fun - I think Boris the Liar wants an election, after a no-deal Brexit and before the consequences become obvious (within days), so the Brexit party will become irrelevant and Brexiteers won't have had chance to become disillusioned. He then gets to be PM for the next five years - presumably hoping to be able to repair enough of the damage in that time to fight the next election.

Unfortunately I think he'll probably succeed in the short term. Whether his leadership, the Tory party, or the UK in its present form survives the next five years seems far less certain. I don't suppose Boris the Liar gives a fuck, so long as he maximises (as he sees it) his chances of being PM for as long as possible.

[Gordon]

Not sure about fun - I think Boris the Liar wants an election, after a no-deal Brexit and before the consequences become obvious (within days), so the Brexit party will become irrelevant and Brexiteers won't have had chance to become disillusioned. He then gets to be PM for the next five years - presumably hoping to be able to repair enough of the damage in that time to fight the next election.

Unfortunately I think he'll probably succeed in the short term. Whether his leadership, the Tory party, or the UK in its present form survives the next five years seems far less certain. I don't suppose Boris the Liar gives a fuck, so long as he maximises (as he sees it) his chances of being PM for as long as possible.

I'd hope that if legislation is passed to stop no-deal that Labour and the other parties won't be tempted to agree to a GE until we get past the 31st October, assuming the EU agree to extend A50, and that they wait to see how the Tory party would handle having no-deal prevented but not having the GE option, which they think they can win, handed to them on a plate. 

[Spud]

"MPs who vote to block no deal would "destroy" the government's Brexit negotiating position."

Since it is obvious the EU won't agree to a deal without the backstop, it's deceitful of Boris and his mates to claim that they can still do a deal without the backstop, and even worse to say that ruling out 'no deal' weakens our position. Our position would be much stronger if Boris were honest about the situation. For goodness sake, just stay in the customs union and single market.

[jeremyp]

I'm sure you'll find most people who voted leave will have sympathy for her. I didn't vote because I don't live in England anymore but my main opposition to the EU has always been is centralisation. I had no prolem with a trade union. Political union went too far though and I think that is most people's gripe with thd EU. It takes decision making further away from the people.

So, had you voted, you would have voted to wreck people's real lives for some nebulous dream of decentralisation?

[jeremyp]

"MPs who vote to block no deal would "destroy" the government's Brexit negotiating position."

Since it is obvious the EU won't agree to a deal without the backstop, it's deceitful of Boris and his mates to claim that they can still do a deal without the backstop, and even worse to say that ruling out 'no deal' weakens our position. Our position would be much stronger if Boris were honest about the situation. For goodness sake, just stay in the customs union and single market.

The EU has already said that the deal that is on the table is the best deal available. The government doesn't have a negotiating position and they know it, they are just pretending they do so that they can blame the evil EU when it all goes tits up on November 1st.

[jeremyp]

Another Brexit dividend.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49549149

[ad_orientem]

So, had you voted, you would have voted to wreck people's real lives for some nebulous dream of decentralisation?

Stupid claim. Would be like saying all those who voted for Labour under Tony Blair voted to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Equally stupid.

[Stranger]

Not sure about fun - I think Boris the Liar wants an election, after a no-deal Brexit and before the consequences become obvious (within days), so the Brexit party will become irrelevant and Brexiteers won't have had chance to become disillusioned.

Brexit: No 10 'considering' election amid no-deal battle with MPs

"Should this happen, the prime minister would be able to recommend the date of the poll - likely to be a hugely contentious issue - to the Queen."

[Nearly Sane]

Brexit: No 10 'considering' election amid no-deal battle with MPs

"Should this happen, the prime minister would be able to recommend the date of the poll - likely to be a hugely contentious issue - to the Queen."

Would there be a 2/3 majority for an election without a postponement of the 31st October date?

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

Would there be a 2/3 majority for an election without a postponement of the 31st October date?

Even if there was, Laura Kuenssberg was saying on Radio 4 earlier that they wouldn't then need further Parliamentary approval if they wanted to postpone the original date. That could be the plan - seek a GE for before 31 Oct, then unilaterally push the date back.